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Old 10-26-2011, 09:00 AM
 
Location: Manhattan
20,185 posts, read 26,506,670 times
Reputation: 9059

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Quote:
Originally Posted by nybbler View Post
I'm saying that every precinct in NY or any other large city has cops who are up to no good -- from bogus arrests to smuggling to rape and murder -- and pretty much every cop in those precincts knows what's going on, and would swear on a stack of bibles that it wasn't.
You get 11 rep points for that...too bad the board will accept only one.
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Old 10-26-2011, 11:36 AM
 
Location: Staten Island, NY
7,917 posts, read 6,498,851 times
Reputation: 7103
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kefir King View Post
You get 11 rep points for that...too bad the board will accept only one.
If you agree with it, you agree with it, and that's fine. I'm just interested in the mindset that leads one to make statements like that. "Pretty much", "most", "everyone", "I bet"... statements that contain these phrases are almost always wildly assumptive in whatever they are trying to express.

If me and you were in a heated argument over whether ALL/MOST cops were corrupt, how would you defend the statement "and pretty much every cop in those precincts knows what's going on, and would swear on a stack of bibles that it wasn't." in an intelligent way? Hell the bible part makes it even harder to defend because there are likely to be atheist cops who wouldn't swear anything on a bible.

See what I'm getting at? Statements like the one I pointed out express nothing but emotion. There is no value to it and it teaches no one anything. If the police department is actually majority filled with criminals, you would think that one could express that point with much more definitive, and factually-defensible statements.
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Old 10-26-2011, 02:00 PM
 
Location: Staten Island, NY
456 posts, read 759,673 times
Reputation: 335
Terrible couple of months for the NYPD.
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Old 10-26-2011, 04:47 PM
 
Location: Ridgewood, NY
3,039 posts, read 5,742,168 times
Reputation: 1566
I just think that ever since one or two articles came out about shady police the post and NYDN mostly jumped on that bandwagon and began running articles rampid about these things whether they be a big deal or not... Notice in the articles you'll see ex-cop... friend of a cop... Cop's brother... It's just there way of selling newspapers... We read them because they keep us informed... Not necessarily because they're a particularly reliable source...

Like I've said before i'm not crazy about Police in general but these articles don't convince me anymore of what I believe... There are many noble decent cops out there but there are also those that we read about in the paper... We don't condemn all teachers because a couple of them are bad apples...

Last edited by anon1; 10-26-2011 at 05:05 PM..
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Old 10-26-2011, 11:22 PM
 
3,333 posts, read 3,292,689 times
Reputation: 2834
Quote:
Originally Posted by Airborneguy View Post
No one uses that argument to justify behavior like this. They use it to explain an obviously true fact: not all cops are like these guys. If you believe that all NYPD cops are like these guys, you're just allowing your emotions to get to you. It is one thing to be wary based on these incidents, which do seem to be too frequent lately, but it would be quite a stretch to say it is everyone.
I do not believe that all NYC cops are corrupt.
However, I do believe that a significant enough percentage are whereby it is a real problem.

Are you going to dispute this?


Do you think all politicians are corrupt? Do all politicians have to be corrupt in order for there to be significant problems?
Same goes for cops.


Moreover, I do believe that the higher up the ranks, the higher the percentage of corrupt/scumbag cops.

Personally, I've encountered some very good, professional cops. On the other hand, in the aggregate, I've encountered more bad/disrespectful than good.
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Old 10-27-2011, 05:15 AM
 
Location: South Bronx
1,275 posts, read 2,081,162 times
Reputation: 1009
Five days, no charges: Stray bullet VICTIM held 'captive' when cops don’t believe her story
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Old 10-27-2011, 05:36 AM
 
Location: Bronx, NY
9,835 posts, read 21,532,714 times
Reputation: 3514
Quote:
Originally Posted by anon1 View Post
I just think that ever since one or two articles came out about shady police the post and NYDN mostly jumped on that bandwagon and began running articles rampid about these things whether they be a big deal or not... Notice in the articles you'll see ex-cop... friend of a cop... Cop's brother... It's just there way of selling newspapers... We read them because they keep us informed... Not necessarily because they're a particularly reliable source...

Like I've said before i'm not crazy about Police in general but these articles don't convince me anymore of what I believe... There are many noble decent cops out there but there are also those that we read about in the paper... We don't condemn all teachers because a couple of them are bad apples...
Did you see nydn yesterday?

Five NYPD officers arrested in sting operation for smuggling illegal guns, contraband
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Old 10-27-2011, 07:24 AM
 
Location: Staten Island, NY
7,917 posts, read 6,498,851 times
Reputation: 7103
Quote:
Originally Posted by wawaweewa View Post
I do not believe that all NYC cops are corrupt.
However, I do believe that a significant enough percentage are whereby it is a real problem.

Are you going to dispute this?
The only word I would dispute is "significant", in the sense that I don't believe that a significant number fall into this category out of the 30k total. BUT... even 1-2 incidents with 5-10 cops is a serious problem that needs to be addressed from the top. Is it the hiring practices? Is it a lack of leadership? What is it? But I am not prepared to make wild extropolations based on a relatively small percentage of criminals compared to the huge number of cops this city employs.


Quote:
Originally Posted by wawaweewa View Post
Moreover, I do believe that the higher up the ranks, the higher the percentage of corrupt/scumbag cops.
These are the statements I am talking about. Of recent events, there's been one questionable situation involving a high ranking cop (the pepper spraying), other than that, we are talking mostly PO's and SGT's. What evidence do you have to make the statement above? It makes no sense and is based purely on emotion. A good argument can be made for there being a lack of leadership, that's for sure, and that falls squarely on the brass. But corruption and being a scumbag? Corruption has a specific meaning, and you are either misusing it or basically making an assumptive statement, and "scumbag" is purely emotional, plain and simple. My point is that dialogue such as this does nothing for anyone. It's pointless and will solve nothing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by wawaweewa View Post
Personally, I've encountered some very good, professional cops. On the other hand, in the aggregate, I've encountered more bad/disrespectful than good.
Bad/disrespectful is too subjective to really be indicative of a "problem". Very few people encounter cops in an enforcement situation and walk away saying "yeah I deserved that ticket," or "I understand why he stopped me." Everyone is always yelling about "respect". Respect between cops and the public is an entire conversation on its own, especially in a place like NYC where many cultures have their own viewpoints on what the word entails.
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Old 10-27-2011, 07:43 AM
 
Location: Manhattan
20,185 posts, read 26,506,670 times
Reputation: 9059
Yes,

Your point is fair. It is difficult to provide continuous videotapes of all the NYPD and since that is the only standard under which any of these cops will earn a slap on the wrist. So no, "most" cops cannot be proven guilty, especially given the blue wall of silence swearing on bibles.

As citizens we see what is happening and we draw conclusions. These conclusions will not stand up to a court of law for for convicting the entire police force.

So if you are a prosecutor with his head in the sand and with lots of friends on the force, then people drawing conclusions are not valid. However if you are a sencient being who observes his world and his City than the "almost all," "most" and "many" have validity. When we post extrapolations of the likelihood of crooked cops it is because we have experiences and observations to extrapolate.

For those who demand videotaped proof and a jury conviction to show a cop is crooked, they will never understand the subject...that is always the goal of a corrupt organization, keep plausible deniability. So no, there can never be a proven figure that 18.7% of the NYPD is crooked but that does not mean that none ARE crooked nor does it mean that 100% aren't.

Heck, obfuscation has worked for the Mafia for nearly a century; the NYPD learned the code of silence from the BEST.
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Old 10-27-2011, 08:38 AM
 
4,911 posts, read 6,833,313 times
Reputation: 4279
Quote:
So no, there can never be a proven figure that 18.7% of the NYPD is crooked but that does not mean that none ARE crooked nor does it mean that 100% aren't.
Nobody said that there, friend. Also, those two parts of the sentence mean the same thing.

More blanket statements. Shocking.
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