Do you think NY's "specialized" high schools are "racist"? (New York: best neighborhood, buy)

[Henna]

Originally Posted by yodel

It's sad to hear all the posters who seem to believe in natural superiority of certain races over others.

How many were there in this thread that said they believe that? I can only recall one. However, I don't have time to re-read the thread to go back to check.

[yodel]

Originally Posted by Henna

How many were there in this thread that said they believe that? I can only recall one. However, I don't have time to re-read the thread to go back to check.

I think there were three - maybe "all" is the wrong word to use, but I still find the sentiment troubling.

[Harlem resident]

Originally Posted by celticvisa

Stuyvesant is racially segregated.

2. I already explained this.

The schools are not racially but culturally segregated. Those whose cultural allegiances will most likely result in success are admitted. Those who insist on loyalty to less, shall we say, productive cultural systems will be "tested out," in order not to waste time and in order to prevent behaviors that will damage and/or hold back the success of the rest of the group. Why should ten children be exposed to the negative influences of one ? Even if it is the fault of the vastly underqualified parents ?

Parents, do you want your child to challenge the king's English ? Encourage him/her to learn and speak it. Speak it yourself. In fact, develop an advanced understanding that provides a more complex view than simply "racism !!!!!" each and every time something does not work out for you.

Want people to listen ? Dress appropriately and arrive on time. Develop credentials. Discourage beginning the family-building process at age 13 or 14. Or 18 for that matter. It is 10 PM on a school night. Where IS your child, by the way ? And so on.

This is not rocket science.

[Harlem resident]

Originally Posted by yodel

I think there were three - maybe "all" is the wrong word to use, but I still find the sentiment troubling.

People are always talking about unproductive or productive cultural values. You are reading into things given your own preoccupations. Notice how we are now veering off topic (see below).

Educators see this every day. The worst thing about it is the fact that it makes it near impossible to change something for a given child. We cannot get a child to school on time because we first need a 4,300-hour discussion about Race in America and Our Children and so on. As the child ages and is more alienated we have these discussions. They do have a place, but at this point, people need to focus on practical goals. This will probably involve making more laws in the near future is my guess, broadening the definition of neglect of children and similar in order to make parents far more accountable than is currently the case.

[bluedog2]

Originally Posted by Harlem resident

The schools are not racially but culturally segregated. Those whose cultural allegiances will most likely result in success are admitted. Those who insist on loyalty to less, shall we say, productive cultural systems will be "tested out," in order not to waste time and in order to prevent behaviors that will damage and/or hold back the success of the rest of the group. Why should ten children be exposed to the negative influences of one ? Even if it is the fault of the vastly underqualified parents ? ......

This is the single biggest, though certainly not the only, problem with the whole NYC school system......the holding back of the entire group because of the behavior problems and classroom chaos caused by some.
It can be extremely destructive.

[Harlem resident]

Originally Posted by bluedog2

This is the single biggest, though certainly not the only, problem with the whole NYC school system......the holding back of the entire group because of the behavior problems and classroom chaos caused by some.
It can be extremely destructive.

It is the biggest problem, and involves each child - something people can address themselves.

It is never possible to control others, seldom possible to influence institutions so much, except very slowly, BUT: You can control what you do and how your child grows up.

That's why blaming exterior things overmuch always fails. People should focus on those things they can influence and direct.

[celticvisa]

Originally Posted by Harlem resident

It is the biggest problem, and involves each child - something people can address themselves.

It is never possible to control others, seldom possible to influence institutions so much, except very slowly, BUT: You can control what you do and how your child grows up.

That's why blaming exterior things overmuch always fails. People should focus on those things they can influence and direct.

We need to help black and Latino families then. Our society has abandoned them.

[goldengrain]

Originally Posted by omigawd

It would only be racist if they had different tests for each race group. All students are taking the SAME TEST. If you pass, you're in. If you don't, you're not in. You can't cry "racism" just because black/hispanic kids don't make up the percentage of students you want them to. If that's the case, then whites can cry racism, too, because there are so many Asians in those schools.

Just as information, my Indian friend has two sons who both did excellently in high school but had a problem getting into preferred colleges because they had their quota of Asians, even though the kids scored higher than whites the colleges discriminated against them.

I agree, if whites don't score as well on tests or do as well, overall, they should not be given special treatment. I'm white, by the way, if that matters at all.

[EdwardA]

Originally Posted by AllenDullesMJ12

I think culture is 50% of the controlling factor, the other 50% is heredity/genetics and leadership. One example of this is Steve Jobs; his biological father was an entrepreneur and biological sister was a successful author. Meanwhile his stepparents who raised him since he was a baby were regular folk who didn't specialize in any field.
Jobs ended up taking after his biological relatives in that sense, and perused his intellectual interests by his own will. He did not need prep school, tutors, or special programs to give him what his stepparents couldn't.

I think his adopted father was an engineer in Silicon Valley before the "Silicon" he wasn't exactly raised in a cabin in Kentucky but I agree with your general premise there is a biological component to intelligence.

[AllenDullesMJ12]

Originally Posted by celticvisa

We need to help black and Latino families then. Our society has abandoned them.

Society can help but they are not miracle workers. They can't turn Shaniqua and Taiquan into Einsteins that ace math and science tests. At least make sure they don't go into gangs or have teenage pregnancies.