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Old 11-08-2011, 08:42 AM
 
7,397 posts, read 10,426,364 times
Reputation: 2824
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kefir King View Post
So 17 year olds have STUPID babies?
This is a new concept.

And TV watching lowers IQ?

Bizarre.

I am of the opinion that for any large group, the average IQ is determined from birth. You can tell a high IQ baby from the way he plays in a crib and the way his eyes move. You can tell a dullard the same way. What you do at age 3 might make a kid KNOW more at age 4 but it won't raise his IQ or his ability to learn and deduce.

Smart kids aren't created by parenting. Rotten parents might make kids neurotic but they won't GENERALLY make them smart or stupid. Rare exceptions occur but overwhelmingly, smart kids are BORN not MADE.
Did I say those words? Or are you writing your own narrative?

If you have to rely on dishonesty then you have lost credibility. Move along.

 
Old 11-08-2011, 10:13 AM
DAS
 
2,227 posts, read 3,530,639 times
Reputation: 865
Quote:
Originally Posted by Moth View Post
Did I say those words? Or are you writing your own narrative?

If you have to rely on dishonesty then you have lost credibility. Move along.
Excellent writing, and wonderful way to respond. When I was growing up in the Bronx we used to say "it takes one to know one". I'll leave it at that on some of these post.
 
Old 11-08-2011, 05:19 PM
 
83 posts, read 16,812 times
Reputation: 44
Quote:
Originally Posted by Moth View Post
Exactly. This is a problem of bad culture and faulty upbringing vs. good culture and productive upbringin.
This is truly simple-minded thinking and a case of blaming the victims.

What caused this "bad culture"? What caused this "faulty upbringing"? You don't see any racism or ignorance or lack of humanity in your attitude?
 
Old 11-08-2011, 05:22 PM
 
83 posts, read 16,812 times
Reputation: 44
Default common sense tells one they don't

[quote=queensgrl;21606176]
Quote:
Originally Posted by celticvisa View Post

Parochial + private. Yes, they do.
Do you have facts and figures to support this? It's simply not true. I think the Catholic Church keeps figures and a huge proportion of Catholic students enter catholic high schools.

Also, the curriculum in Catholic schools is not especially challenging. It's geared toward the middle chunk of learners on the standrad normal curve.

Students who go to private middle schools go to private high schools obviously.
 
Old 11-08-2011, 05:27 PM
 
83 posts, read 16,812 times
Reputation: 44
Quote:
Originally Posted by Moth View Post
Good grief.

1) Racism- Prove it. You cannot.

2) Poverty. Often enough. But as history has shown us, embracing education defeats poverty.

3) Apathy- OK, but how do I or anyone else make an apathetic kid want to learn? That is on them.

Your mention of Rosa Parks is inane, irrelevant, and more than a bit pathetic.
There is no racism in America? Please tear yourself away from your television and take a look at reality.

History shows us just the opposite - public education in America has not made a DENT against poverty. Before you start blowing hot air, find some facts and figures. History shows us - ha ha ha - that's a good one. Provide ONE instance.

I was referring to your apathy. You don't care that people are suffering from a lack of opportunity in the country and that lives are being thrown away.

YOUR apathy is worse than the apathy of any inner city kid who doesn't want to do work he doesn't find to be meaningful or relevant to his/her experience.
 
Old 11-08-2011, 05:30 PM
 
813 posts, read 283,990 times
Reputation: 491
Quote:
Originally Posted by celticvisa View Post
This is truly simple-minded thinking and a case of blaming the victims.

What caused this "bad culture"? What caused this "faulty upbringing"? You don't see any racism or ignorance or lack of humanity in your attitude?
The truth is that those people are not intelligent enough to create a developed culture on their own. Give them a lot of opportunities, money and education, and those people will squander it, because they are mentally incapable of governing themselves in a productive way. Hence why all "poor societies" survive as parasites from productive ones.

Why should we care for them? There is absolutely no obligation, it is only up to personal preference.

Things like humanitarianism are invented ideas for the purpose of political appeasement, and have no real basis in reality. If a society or community can't sustain themselves then they will just go into the trash heap of history, like the countless other groups that disappeared before them.
 
Old 11-08-2011, 06:00 PM
 
Location: NY/LA
600 posts, read 492,274 times
Reputation: 452
Quote:
Originally Posted by celticvisa View Post
History shows us just the opposite - public education in America has not made a DENT against poverty. Before you start blowing hot air, find some facts and figures. History shows us - ha ha ha - that's a good one. Provide ONE instance.
I think public education provides an escape from poverty... for those who are disciplined enough to make education a priority. In 2006, 30% of incoming freshman at Stuyvesant were immigrants. Not all of those are going to be considered poor, but I bet you a few of them had parents working as menial labor in restaurants and stores. I personally know someone who came to the United States as a refugee when she was very young and lived in a crappy neighborhood. Her parents emphasized the importance of education. Eventually, she went on to become valedictorian at her high school (w/ a perfect Math SAT score), attended an Ivy League school and is a successful surgeon today.

The opportunities are there. However, children's biggest influences are their friends and family. If the friends and family aren't pushing kids to take education seriously (and take advantage of these opportunities) how much of that is the fault of the educational system and how much of it is the fault of the kids' friends, family, home environment and culture?
 
Old 11-09-2011, 05:41 AM
 
894 posts, read 869,363 times
Reputation: 958
Nonprofit’s college prep program will help poor Brooklyn students “break out” and achieve success

As we talked about this problem here, you have people out there
actually doing something to help the kids from poor neighborhoods
instead of just talk and complaint.
 
Old 11-09-2011, 07:26 AM
bg7
 
3,225 posts, read 2,306,460 times
Reputation: 3542
Quote:
Originally Posted by celticvisa View Post
YOUR apathy is worse than the apathy of any inner city kid who doesn't want to do work he doesn't find to be meaningful or relevant to his/her experience.

Your facile blaming of educational failure (at even the very earliest levels!) on racism is what is apathy. Its throwing your hands up and refusing to examine whats really going on. A charge of "racism" is too often used as a tool to end debate, but your use of it is slightly nuanced at least, its to end your thinking on the subject.

As for your nonsense that education has not made a dent against poverty, the whole thesis is that people NOT taking advanatage of the education by behavioral modes that sabotage themselves is the issue. ie, the opportunity is there (and people break their necks trying to get here to take advantage of it) but is not used - and if it is not used of course it is impotent!

I don't know why you bother posting Celtic, you can just get an iphone App that generates the same tired and worn "arguments", it'll save you time.
 
Old 11-09-2011, 07:28 AM
bg7
 
3,225 posts, read 2,306,460 times
Reputation: 3542
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaydata View Post
Nonprofit’s college prep program will help poor Brooklyn students “break out” and achieve success

As we talked about this problem here, you have people out there
actually doing something to help the kids from poor neighborhoods
instead of just talk and complaint.

Thats an excellent program - this kind of thing is needed at all levels.
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