Police arrest for not providing country of origin? (New York, Union: apartment, crime)

[Cida]

Interesting story in the NYT: an American citizen, though with an accent, who was essentially hauled off in handcuffs because he didn't feel like telling a cop where he was originally from. And even more absurdly, it was triggered by a woman who was massively tattooed but objected to someone looking at her.

I'm starting to get the feeling we're in another period of police over-reaction.



The Accented Activist, the Blue Woman and One Curious Year in Court

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/11/29/ny...f=nrkleinfield

[nybbler]

There's nothing more to this than he refused to co-operate with the cop, so the system is punishing him for it. You expect that from the cops, but that the persecutor is asking for jail time is kind of over the top.

Seems unlikely the Port Authority police would care about him being a gadfly to the City of Hoboken.

(and as for the woman, someone who is heavily tattooed who finds it offensive to be stared at is just someone looking for a fight)

[Henna]

Thanks for posting this. I would like to know what information we are required to give to police if we are stopped. Obviously this guy could not have anticipated this situation, and he really wasn't committing a crime or causing any trouble.

There was recently another case where a Carnegie Mellon student in NYC for a weekend was stopped by cops in a park shortly after the park's closing time of 1 am. Her friend had ID and provided his, but she didn't have hers on her because her wallet was in the hotel nearby. The friend offered to get the wallet; the cops didn't allow this. Because she didn't have ID, the young woman was taken into custody for something like 2-3 days before she came before a judge and was freed.

New York City cop imprisons college student without ID for two days | The Lookout - Yahoo! News

[bluedog2]

In most of the world,including Europe,you must produce identification when asked by police.

In many countries,if you have foreign visitors,you are required to register them and their passports with the local police with arrival and departure dates.

It seems clear we will be joining the rest of the world soon.

[nybbler]

Some US states require that you identify yourself to cops, which he did. But you're simply not required, as a US citizen, to tell some random cop your country of origin. (I'm not sure about aliens and tourists, but this guy was neither). Nor are you required to carry actual identification papers. It's just that the cops are out of control, and as long as the judges and the "good citizens" will back them up, they'll remain out of control.

[FlushingRepresenter]

Column: Showing I.D. to the NYPD (Our Times) | New York Civil Liberties Union (NYCLU) - American Civil Liberties Union of New York State

Many people are surprised to learn that in New York State, you are not legally required to carry any form of identification at any time. That’s right--there is no law that says you need to have i.d. or show i.d. to a police officer. Officers who threaten to arrest you simply for not showing i.d. are trying to intimidate you.
Officers cannot arrest you just for not showing i.d. However, they might arrest you for a “cover charge,” such as disorderly conduct, if they do not like the way you refused their request. You should always report threats or false arrests like these to the Civilian Complaint Review Board (CCRB).

This is the most important part.

There are three situations in which it is especially important to have identification with you to avoid trouble: when using a student Metrocard, while in public or private housing complexes, and when being issued a summons.
Student Metrocards can only be used by the student whose name is on it on days when school is in session. Police officers can stop a young person they see using a student card and ask to see her school i.d. to make sure it is her card and that her school is in session.
In this situation, the best course of action is to hand over your student i.d., stay calm, and say as little as possible. These stops often take an extremely long time because the officer may call your school to confirm that you are actually a student there. Anything you say to the officer during this time can be used against you, so it is best to stay quiet.
It is also important to have identification with you when you are in a public or private housing complex. In many cases, landlords ask the NYPD to patrol their buildings for safety reasons. Officers then patrol the buildings and ask people for identificiation. If you live in the building and are stopped by a patrol, showing your i.d. will prove you have the right to be in the building because it gives your address.
If you do not live in the building but are visiting someone, the officer should try to find the person you are visiting to prove that you should be there. Unfortunately, officers often fail to take this last step and arrest people who actually have the right to be in the building. Officers also sometimes arrest people whose licenses show that they live in an adjoining building.
You should report officers who make these bad arrests to the Civilian Complaint Review Board and can even sue them in civil or small claims court.
Lastly, an officer cannot write you a summons if you do not provide i.d; instead he must arrest you. That means that if you are stopped for a violation such as loitering and do not provide i.d., you will be arrested.


New York and New Jersey laws are similar but they are ***** NOT ***** the same.

[bluedog2]

Originally Posted by FlushingRepresenter

Column: Showing I.D. to the NYPD (Our Times) | New York Civil Liberties Union (NYCLU) - American Civil Liberties Union of New York State

Many people are surprised to learn that in New York State, you are not legally required to carry any form of identification at any time. That’s right--there is no law that says you need to have i.d. or show i.d. to a police officer. Officers who threaten to arrest you simply for not showing i.d. are trying to intimidate you.
Officers cannot arrest you just for not showing i.d. However, they might arrest you for a “cover charge,” such as disorderly conduct, if they do not like the way you refused their request. You should always report threats or false arrests like these to the Civilian Complaint Review Board (CCRB).

This is the most important part.

There are three situations in which it is especially important to have identification with you to avoid trouble: when using a student Metrocard, while in public or private housing complexes, and when being issued a summons.
Student Metrocards can only be used by the student whose name is on it on days when school is in session. Police officers can stop a young person they see using a student card and ask to see her school i.d. to make sure it is her card and that her school is in session.
In this situation, the best course of action is to hand over your student i.d., stay calm, and say as little as possible. These stops often take an extremely long time because the officer may call your school to confirm that you are actually a student there. Anything you say to the officer during this time can be used against you, so it is best to stay quiet.
It is also important to have identification with you when you are in a public or private housing complex. In many cases, landlords ask the NYPD to patrol their buildings for safety reasons. Officers then patrol the buildings and ask people for identificiation. If you live in the building and are stopped by a patrol, showing your i.d. will prove you have the right to be in the building because it gives your address.
If you do not live in the building but are visiting someone, the officer should try to find the person you are visiting to prove that you should be there. Unfortunately, officers often fail to take this last step and arrest people who actually have the right to be in the building. Officers also sometimes arrest people whose licenses show that they live in an adjoining building.
You should report officers who make these bad arrests to the Civilian Complaint Review Board and can even sue them in civil or small claims court.
Lastly, an officer cannot write you a summons if you do not provide i.d; instead he must arrest you. That means that if you are stopped for a violation such as loitering and do not provide i.d., you will be arrested.


New York and New Jersey laws are similar but they are ***** NOT ***** the same.

In other words,you are not required to carry ID but you better have ID if you are stopped doing anything illegal or you will be arrested for the infraction no matter how trivial.

This probably explains what happened to the woman Henna mentioned.I don't think she was arrested for not having ID,she was arrested for being in the park after it was officially closed.

This explanation might also explain what "operation clean halls" really means.I always wondered exactly what all those signs on apartment buildings meant.Evidently they mean the police have the right to arrest you in any apartment building with the sign up because the landlords have already given their consent for the police to do that ?

So a 4th situation in which it is important to have ID is if you are visiting anyone in any apartment building in NYC that has an "opertion clean halls" sign on it.What is that? Like 70% or 80 % of the apartment buildings in NYC ?

[nybbler]

Originally Posted by FlushingRepresenter

However, they might arrest you for a “cover charge,” such as disorderly conduct, if they do not like the way you refused their request. You should always report threats or false arrests like these to the Civilian Complaint Review Board (CCRB).

And then leave the city forever, because once you've complained to the CCRB you'll have cops on you like white on rice.

[American_Psycho]

Although, it is NOT a law I always have my NYS ID when i go out. Even if i go out for a jog, i carry my id just in case i get hurt or somehow get killed so the cops wouldn't have to work too hard.

When i travel abroad, i make several color photocopies of my passport just to avoid the foreign police to work too hard.

[Cida]

Originally Posted by Henna

Thanks for posting this. I would like to know what information we are required to give to police if we are stopped. Obviously this guy could not have anticipated this situation, and he really wasn't committing a crime or causing any trouble.

There was recently another case where a Carnegie Mellon student in NYC for a weekend was stopped by cops in a park shortly after the park's closing time of 1 am. Her friend had ID and provided his, but she didn't have hers on her because her wallet was in the hotel nearby. The friend offered to get the wallet; the cops didn't allow this. Because she didn't have ID, the young woman was taken into custody for something like 2-3 days before she came before a judge and was freed.

New York City cop imprisons college student without ID for two days | The Lookout - Yahoo! News

Thanks, Henna. I had read that story about the student, and I was horrified. That's another example that led to my wondering if we're in a period when cops are going overboard.

And I, too, have wondered about what information you're required to give. I don't even know if you're actually required to give your name. And, regardless what other countries may do, up until the last decade or two, it was my impression that America prided itself on being "freer" than most other places. Being required to carry ID always makes me think of WWII Nazi movies.