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Old 12-11-2011, 10:02 AM
 
Location: Manhattan
11,355 posts, read 11,260,449 times
Reputation: 4803

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Quote:
Did everyone get tickets?
Yes they did.

Quote:
My OP is simply, why is is SBS such a difficult concept for people to grasp????????
It was very poorly advertised. I am amused that half of the drivers think the ticket operates as a valid transfer and half do not even at this late date.

We did a test. We wanted to go to Indiantown (6th St.) and I jumped on a local at 89th and Second...dinner partner took a Select at amost the same time. I was in the restaurant (Spice Cove) first. Proof of the pudding and all.

You have to admit that the mix of Select and Limited buses with local buses is overly complicated. Toss in Express buses and Bx buses that seem to stop NOWHERE and it gets tedious, ESPECIALLY for tourists. Add 500 private bus lines for added confusion.
Why should a Second Avenue bus operate entirely differently from a Third Avenue bus for no demonstrable advantage, only confusion?

A little bon mot extra: I asked a driver of the 101 (Limited) bus around 7 PM when the 101 started making local stops. His reply, and I schytt you not was: "I don't know."
So is there any wonder riders are confused if even the DRIVERS are clueless.
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Old 12-11-2011, 04:15 PM
 
Location: Planet Earth
3,361 posts, read 3,746,227 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by omigawd View Post
C'mon. Select Bus Service is NOT new in Manhattan. The M15 (1st/2nd Ave) has had it for about 2 years (at the least). The M34/34A has had it now for about 2 months. On top of that, it's pretty self-explanatory if you're at the bus stop.
The M15 had it for a year, not 2 years (I believe it started October 27th, 2010).

The M34/M34A had it for a couple of weeks, not two months (I believe it started November 23rd, 2011)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kefir King View Post
It CAN be rocket science.
A passenger waiting with me in the coldyesterday told me he and his wife, BOTH of whom have 30 day Unlimited travel Metro cards confronted two non-functioning ticket machines at 89th St (M15) on Thursday. They jumped on the bus when it came anyway and told the driver the machines are broken. All was well until they reached 14 street where he told me that 5 cops were waiting to give out tickets. BOTH of them were hit with $100 tickets (I hear $128 with costs.)
Now both must plead their cases. It was not enough to demonstrate that both had unlimited cards and thus no reason to steal a ride that would have been free.
I've heard of that happening before. I thought if you told the driver the machine was broken, they'd let you ride, and if the fare inspectors came on, you just have to correctly say the name of the stop with the broken machine and they'd let you off.

In any case, if that were me, I wouldn't chance it and would just take the local.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kefir King View Post
Yes they did.
We did a test. We wanted to go to Indiantown (6th St.) and I jumped on a local at 89th and Second...dinner partner took a Select at amost the same time. I was in the restaurant (Spice Cove) first. Proof of the pudding and all.
The thing about the +SBS+ is that you have to walk from 14th Street, whereas the local leaves you right there.

In any case, I remember once I took the M15 local from South Ferry up to 8th Street and we weren't passed until 8th Street, so that's a pretty decent distance.

I've always felt that riders in Midtown Manhattan were different from riders in the outer boroughs. Out here, we keep it moving, whereas on almost all of the Manhattan routes I rode (at least in Midtown Manhattan), the drivers hit most of the lights and the passengers took their sweet time getting on and off.

I remember once I was on the M5 (the turnstile ate my last ride on my Student MetroCard, so I figured I'd use the transfer to take the M5 to South Ferry and ask for a second transfer to use in Staten Island), we pulled up, and instead of having to push the back door like you do in SI, you just had to tap it with your finger. I was completely shoced when the guy just stood at the back and then tapped it and shouted out "Push!".

Then, later on an elite-sounding woman got on by Canal Street. She said "I've waited 15 minutes and then 2 buses come. I'm not paying for this!" I'm thinking "Damn, out here in SI, you'll wait 15 minutes and 1 bus will come and in some neighborhoods, you'll be lucky if you can get on, let alone get a seat".
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Old 12-11-2011, 04:32 PM
 
Location: Beautiful Pelham Parkway,The Bronx
6,629 posts, read 11,578,423 times
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I don't think there are any excuses,ever.

The stops for the SBS are not the same as the stops for the regular busses.People know that.SBS busses have flashing blue lights for a reason.They are very distinguishable.
If the SBS machine was broken at a stop that I wanted to get on at there is no way I would just get on the bus and try to use it as an excuse.I would just walk over to the regular bus stop and get on that bus.I can't imagine getting on an SBS bus without a ticket and complaining that the machine wasn't working and then trying to argue with a fine.

Anyone who gets on an SBS bus without prepaying or anyone who gets on a regular bus without the correct change is doing it on purpose and playing dumb to try to get a free ride,period.They deserve whatever fine they get.It's ghetto behavior,pure and simple.It's no different than people who just jump a turnstyle because their card supposedly doesn't work.If your card doesn't work,go to a machine and buy one that will work.

I don't think the SBS is a failure at all.It works pretty well on Pelham Parkway/Fordham Road and has done exactly what it was designed to do.There should be more of them all around the city.

Last edited by bluedog2; 12-11-2011 at 05:05 PM..
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Old 12-11-2011, 05:38 PM
 
3,418 posts, read 3,279,059 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by omigawd View Post
OMG.... is the "Select Bus Service" really that difficult of a concept??? I was on the M34 today and every single stop, people got on, trying to "dip" their MetroCard even though the driver has the slot blocked.

Okay, at the bus stop, there are 3 machines. There is a sign telling you it is SELECT BUS SERVICE. It's been advertised ad nauseum for the past year. So WHY do you not get it??? Must you stand there, questioning the driver and holding everyone else up??? You shake your head as the driver is talking but you STILL don't get it! GET OFF THE FREAKING BUS, WALK TO THE MACHINE, HIT THE 'START' BUTTON, DIP YOUR CARD, TAKE YOUR CARD BACK, TAKE YOUR RECEIPT. It's not rocket science.

Why is it that people just don't "get" this??????????????? I remember when they first started the SBS on the M34/M34A. They had MTA workers there in bright orange vests giving out instructions. People STILL got on the bus trying to dip their Metro Cards.

Sorry, but I disagree. And I can't adequately express how much I loathe the Select Buses, which seem to be a typical example of MTA wrong-headedness.

First, I don't know where it was advertised for year, but I didn't know about it, and it took me by surprise when I first encountered it. It didn't help that the driver himself was absolutely unable to articulate exactly what it was, where it stopped, how it differed from a limited. (Kefir King's example of a driver saying "I don't know" is typical.)

Second, you are wrongly assuming that everyone takes buses daily, and has had ample experience. Not true. As a matter of fact, I'm puzzled at your saying "I remember when they first started the SBS on the M34/M34A" as if it were ages ago. It barely started.

Third, perhaps one reason for confusion is that the concept is pretty much counter to anyone's bus experience across the whole country.

Fourth, I'm no longer sure that people on without paying are necessarily the ghetto criminal element that Bluedog2 implies. One of the worst, stupidest aspects of the SBS is that if you're running for the bus - surely a very New York behavior - you are no longer supposed to just leap on.

Fifth, I don't think the instructions are that good on the machines - and on top of that, think of how much of the ridership may be foreign, including tourists.

Sixth, I think it's appalling that the MTA shrugs off no-pays on regular buses, but employs a uniformed force to people the SBS and ignominiously drag people off the bus if they can't produce a ticket. (I can't remember if I've posted yet about an executive-looking young guy - suit, tie, briefcase- who was dragged off the bus despite his protests, and after a prolonged five minutes, by which time the bus was long gone, found his receipt.)

I haven't had a chance to explore yet some of the things I wondered about - such as, what if you buy a ticket but the bus doesn't show up and you're forced to flag a cab? I assume you're screwed. What happens if you're on the wrong bus, intending to transfer? Do they give you another transfer, as they used to? I doubt it.
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Old 12-11-2011, 05:49 PM
 
Location: Beautiful Pelham Parkway,The Bronx
6,629 posts, read 11,578,423 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cida View Post
Sorry, but I disagree. And I can't adequately express how much I loathe the Select Buses, which seem to be a typical example of MTA wrong-headedness.

First, I don't know where it was advertised for year, but I didn't know about it, and it took me by surprise when I first encountered it. It didn't help that the driver himself was absolutely unable to articulate exactly what it was, where it stopped, how it differed from a limited. (Kefir King's example of a driver saying "I don't know" is typical.)

Second, you are wrongly assuming that everyone takes buses daily, and has had ample experience. Not true. As a matter of fact, I'm puzzled at your saying "I remember when they first started the SBS on the M34/M34A" as if it were ages ago. It barely started.

Third, perhaps one reason for confusion is that the concept is pretty much counter to anyone's bus experience across the whole country.

Fourth, I'm no longer sure that people on without paying are necessarily the ghetto criminal element that Bluedog2 implies. One of the worst, stupidest aspects of the SBS is that if you're running for the bus - surely a very New York behavior - you are no longer supposed to just leap on.

Fifth, I don't think the instructions are that good on the machines - and on top of that, think of how much of the ridership may be foreign, including tourists.

Sixth, I think it's appalling that the MTA shrugs off no-pays on regular buses, but employs a uniformed force to people the SBS and ignominiously drag people off the bus if they can't produce a ticket. (I can't remember if I've posted yet about an executive-looking young guy - suit, tie, briefcase- who was dragged off the bus despite his protests, and after a prolonged five minutes, by which time the bus was long gone, found his receipt.)

I haven't had a chance to explore yet some of the things I wondered about - such as, what if you buy a ticket but the bus doesn't show up and you're forced to flag a cab? I assume you're screwed. What happens if you're on the wrong bus, intending to transfer? Do they give you another transfer, as they used to? I doubt it.
Still don't understand how anyone with an IQ over 100 could "mistake" an SBS,which stops at different stops than regular and limited busses, which stops are plastered with signs about paying before getting on and has so many flashing lights it looks like an emergency vehicle.

Really,there is no need to LOATHE or get all agitated about SBS.You can easily ignore the whole concept by not going to an SBS stop and not getting on a bus with flashing blue lights all over it.No one is asking or forcing you to deal with payment machines that are too complicated for you.Just take the regular bus and pretend SBS doesn't exist.Surely NOW you know the difference if you didn't before.Just don't leap on any busses with flashing blue lights !

Last edited by bluedog2; 12-11-2011 at 05:58 PM..
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Old 12-11-2011, 06:23 PM
009
 
1,119 posts, read 4,412,712 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bluedog2 View Post
...If the SBS machine was broken at a stop that I wanted to get on at there is no way I would just get on the bus and try to use it as an excuse.I would just walk over to the regular bus stop and get on that bus...
Unlike the Bx12 or the M15 SBS, which have their own local route, the M34/M34A doesn't. The entire route is SBS. You're SOL if the machine is broken.
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Old 12-11-2011, 06:36 PM
 
Location: Beautiful Pelham Parkway,The Bronx
6,629 posts, read 11,578,423 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 009 View Post
Unlike the Bx12 or the M15 SBS, which have their own local route, the M34/M34A doesn't. The entire route is SBS. You're SOL if the machine is broken.
You mean there is no longer any regular crosstown bus on 34th st ? I guess that does complicate things.
But people really ought to make friends with the SBS system because the long term plan is to completely eliminate payments on busses and switch completely to a prepayment system,even on regular routes
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Old 12-11-2011, 06:39 PM
 
6,493 posts, read 5,358,963 times
Reputation: 5462
Quote:
Originally Posted by bluedog2 View Post
You mean there is no longer any regular crosstown bus on 34th st ? I guess that does complicate things.
But people really ought to make friends with the SBS system because the long term plan is to completely eliminate payments on busses and switch completely to a prepayment system,even on regular routes
That way they can collect more fines from non-payers when the machines are broken (as inevitably they will be). And amuse the cops (or "inspectors") by occasionally arrested the non-payer instead.
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Old 12-11-2011, 06:49 PM
 
4,502 posts, read 8,051,718 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kefir King View Post
Yes they did.



.
Yeah, I believe this These people told you that every single person who got on at 89th/2nd were ticketed because of a broken machine? Sounds like a nice bit of embellishment.
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Old 12-11-2011, 06:51 PM
 
4,502 posts, read 8,051,718 times
Reputation: 3938
Quote:
Originally Posted by bluedog2 View Post
You mean there is no longer any regular crosstown bus on 34th st ? I guess that does complicate things.
But people really ought to make friends with the SBS system because the long term plan is to completely eliminate payments on busses and switch completely to a prepayment system,even on regular routes
The only real difference is the M34/34A no longer stop at Park or Madison (or is it Madison and Lex?). Either way, they eliminated 2 stops. The ride does seem to be a bit quicker. I'm sure it will be even quicker once they start enforcing the bus lanes w/cameras.

The SBS system is a great concept and it really speeds things up as far as boarding (since there are 3 doors you can use). The only glitch is the idiots who can't grasp the concept.
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