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There was nothing beautiful about the graffitti that plagued this city back then. Somehow I doubt you would find the 'beauty" in people..ahem, "artists" painting their "artwork" on your car, home or business. It's beautiful after all right? There was nothing beautiful about it except for those who didn't live surrounded by it, didn't know the losers/deadbeats/street thugs who did this and much worse throughout the city, and who are now romanticizing the idea that it was art.
Nevermind the fact that oftentimes the same "artists" who are graffitting over everything were the same groups also doing alot of other petty crimes. These guys were not artists, they just wanted to do whatever it is they wanted, whether it is graffitti on trains, breaking car windows for fun, and robbing people for jewelry...it's all fun and art after all! Right? You will never find so much character as when you interrupt an "artist" "painting" a subway car with his friends, and then they decide to beat the hell out of you...or when you have a gun to your face for your wallet, or when you walk through streets filled with burned out/abandoned cars, or blocks of empty crack viles... truly to much character. I wonder why so many people fled all that art and culture? Strange.
Back when finding a subway car not covered in graffiti was like finding a needle in a hay stack.
I don't mean to burst your bubble...hold on a second, that's precisely what I mean to do.
Graffiti such as you illustrate is not art. It's vandalism. Just ask yourself this question: if someone came along at night and covered your home or your living room with that stuff, would you still think it was art? When someone defaces someone else's property, that's vandalism. You can come up with any kind of justification you like--and I don't doubt that you will--but you won't be changing the facts.
At one time, MTA proposed that anyone caught vandalizing subway cars would have to clean them under the supervision of regular cleaners. Then some bleeding heart came along and threatened to sue them because they thought it was too "harsh." Whoever the person making the threat of that lawsuit was, he should spend eternity in Hell. Clean a whole car you've defaced, and I'm pretty sure you'll never deface another one.
And I agree 100% with Fred. When "artists" start "painting" on your car, home, place of business non-stop, you will quickly change your tune and call it what it is: Vandalism.
Last edited by bmwguydc; 01-18-2012 at 10:58 AM..
Reason: Orphaned comment
I agree you can't just pin vandalism and blight on economic downturns- just like they've shown that crime rates are not correlated with them. Anyway, cultures are always changing. The people that tagged up the trains in these pictures are middle-aged men by now.
But, to be fair, even if you're glad that those days are long gone, you also can't just paint three decades with a broad brush. The graf crews got thuggier and more gang-related over time, but it didn't really start out that way. And crack didn't turn up until the mid-80's, so nobody was stepping on empty crack vials when these pictures were taken. Needles, sure, but that's another story.
Umm...the trains were that way in the mid 80s also. I agree that we can't paint a broad stroke either...and alot of things in the beginning may have seemed ok, but they were vandalizing whether you think the people were "normal" at the onset, or actually artists or not.
And to put things in perspective..you weren't just stepping on needles or crack viles, you were walking through burnt out neighborhoods, drugged up population, and out of control crime/prostitution etc.
Umm...the trains were that way in the mid 80s also. I agree that we can't paint a broad stroke either...and alot of things in the beginning may have seemed ok, but they were vandalizing whether you think the people were "normal" at the onset, or actually artists or not.
And to put things in perspective..you weren't just stepping on needles or crack viles, you were walking through burnt out neighborhoods, drugged up population, and out of control crime/prostitution etc.
even though it was certainly very hard to live there at that time, without all this mess we wouldn't have hip hop culture, and to me it is just inconceivable.
Umm...the trains were that way in the mid 80s also. I agree that we can't paint a broad stroke either...and alot of things in the beginning may have seemed ok, but they were vandalizing whether you think the people were "normal" at the onset, or actually artists or not.
And to put things in perspective..you weren't just stepping on needles or crack viles, you were walking through burnt out neighborhoods, drugged up population, and out of control crime/prostitution etc.
Fair enough.
Personally, though non-gang graffitti doesn't bother me, I never got the "it's just art" angle. Even the original juvenile delinquents to first bomb a train would take issue with that. Half the point of it was that they were defacing public property and risking arrest, showing who had the biggest balls, etc.
Frenchy I would gladly trade the hip-hop culture to never have the collapse of our society. I cannot believe that you wouldn't?
That's because frenchy never lived in NYC during that time nor now...
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