Pedestrian plazas hurt business in Jackson Heights (live in, moving)

[Arxis28]

If you cared to do a little research you’d realized this plan was supported by the local community board and local councilman and is only now in its 6 months trial period. All these new pedestrian plazas go to through the community board for review. For this proposal. DOT met with the the MTA, TLC, FDNY, NYPD, local residents and business and held community walkthroughs, workshops and open houses.

Just because you don’t like the plazas doesn’t mean you have to spew your biased misinformation that they are being shoved down our throats.

The DOT has improved dozens of areas in the city and they are a small step to making the city a little more livable. The slight bit of enjoyment thousands of New Yorkers and visitors get from these plazas may just outweigh a few business’s bottom line. If these JH businesses cater to people who need to drive and park, then maybe they shouldn't be there. Hopefully in this case DOT will come to a resolution that satisfies both parties. It's sad to see when some New Yorkers are just so closed-minded to any kind of change.

[availableusername]

Originally Posted by Arxis28

If you cared to do a little research you’d realized this plan was supported by the local community board and local councilman and is only now in its 6 months trial period. All these new pedestrian plazas go to through the community board for review. For this proposal. DOT met with the the MTA, TLC, FDNY, NYPD, local residents and business and held community walkthroughs, workshops and open houses.

I am aware it's in a trial, and I think that's great. However until I see a transcript from the cb meeting, I don't just believe what I am told.

Just because you don’t like the plazas doesn’t mean you have to spew your biased misinformation that they are being shoved down our throats.

The DOT has improved dozens of areas in the city and they are a small step to making the city a little more livable. The slight bit of enjoyment thousands of New Yorkers and visitors get from these plazas may just outweigh a few business’s bottom line. Hopefully in this case DOT will come to a resolution that satisfies both parties. It's sad to see when some New Yorkers are just so closed-minded to any kind of change.

If by "livable", you mean even more litter than before, more gathering spots for the homeless to lurk around at, and possibly shuttered storefronts; then yeah I guess I see where you're going.

[Arxis28]

And to put a final nail in your argument, the Jackson Heights proposal was supported unanimously by the community board.

Queens CB #3 Votes in Support of Improvement Plan – Implementation Tracking Available Soon! | Jackson Heights


Just look at the general support for the plan on the local neighborhood forum. Apparently before the DOT came in there was already a big problem.
http://www.jacksonheightslife.com/co...p?topic=3015.0


So continue searching for random articles about the nuissance of some plaza so you can paint a broad stroke that the Bloomberg Administration is purposely trying to inconvenience New Yorkers.

[availableusername]

Originally Posted by Arxis28

And to put a final nail in your argument, the Jackson Heights proposal was supported unanimously by the community board.

Queens CB #3 Votes in Support of Improvement Plan – Implementation Tracking Available Soon! | Jackson Heights


Just look at the general support for the plan on the local neighborhood forum. Apparently before the DOT came in there was already a big problem.
http://www.jacksonheightslife.com/co...p?topic=3015.0


So continue searching for random articles about the nuissance of some plaza so you can paint a broad stroke that the Bloomberg Administration is purposely trying to inconvenience New Yorkers.

So you linked me to a city run website that tells me very quickly that the plan was "unanimously approved".

And then you link me to a thread showing three pages of a few different members discussing the unfortunate graffiti of swastikas around the neighborhood.


Checkmate. I'm done.

[Arxis28]

Originally Posted by availableusername

I am aware it's in a trial, and I think that's great. However until I see a transcript from the cb meeting, I don't just believe what I am told.

Help yourself. You made the unsubstantiated claim, not me.
Home - Queens Community Board 3

Originally Posted by availableusername

If by "livable", you mean even more litter than before, more gathering spots for the homeless to lurk around at, and possibly shuttered storefronts; then yeah I guess I see where you're going.

Maybe we should close all parks while we're at it too huh. The logical solution would be stop people from littering and getting the homeless off the streets.

[availableusername]

Originally Posted by Arxis28

Help yourself. You made the unsubstantiated claim, not me.
Home - Queens Community Board 3

So what I see from this link is a couple updates that the plaza is being implemented and then about 6 comments on the side from people that are pretty much split on their opinions of it. Cool, thanks.

Maybe we should close all parks while we're at it too huh. The logical solution would be stop people from littering and getting the homeless off the streets.

Close all parks? No, those are parks. Thanks for throwing out a straw man though, those are always fun.

And yes, we should try and get the homeless off the streets whom have grown at a pretty significant rate since bloomy took office. That's where some resources should be going, not these plazas.

[SobroGuy]

It doesn't matter what you "prove" to available...he immediately sided with business based on one lousy article and now you must waste your time "proving" something. Let him waste his time looking for it himself if he is interested. He won't change his mind either way....businesses are right and their needs trump the community, Bloomberg is evil..according to him at least.

[availableusername]

Originally Posted by SobroGuy

It doesn't matter what you "prove" to available...he immediately sided with business based on one lousy article and now you must waste your time "proving" something. Let him waste his time looking for it himself if he is interested. He won't change his mind either way....businesses are right and their needs trump the community, Bloomberg is evil..according to him at least.

Oh hey, thanks for stopping by again. Did you notice how I dismantled this guy's "proof"?

Also, when did it become a bad thing for people to want to come and shop in the neighborhood? Even if some of them drive in from out of the area. For you to assume that all of these store owners are (paraphrased) "lining their pockets with money from people in the neighborhood and then heading to their lavish houses on long island", speaks volumes about your frothing at the mouth anti-business attitude. I guarantee you that the majority of business owners in that area, indeed live there. These aren't f'n millionaires buddy. They're trying to make an honest living. And the city should come in and cut down on their business to put some adorable little plastic chairs on the street? Great. What a middle class champion this mayor is, a real man of the people. If you had a business in "SoBro", and your business lost revenue up to 50% since a plaza was put in, you would just lean back in your chair and say "meh, it's ok. At least a few people and some homeless guys are enjoying the chairs". I seriously doubt that.

[SobroGuy]

It's not a bad thing for people to shop anywhere, but it is a bad thing to cater to people who drive into a neighborhood with limited parking at the expense of residents' quality of life...and therein lies the problem. You cannot guarantee anything as you know nothing of the community or business owners.

If I were a business owner, I know that I am not guaranteed private or street parking unless I provide it to customers. I know that as a business owner at anytime the city can choose to put metered parking in a currently free parking street. I know that as a business owner a street may be closed indefinitely due to flooding, construction, or some other hazard.

These are risks that I incur as a business owner...nothing is guaranteed to me especially street parking. So if the residents choose to put a plaza there, that is the risk I take as a business owner. I also have the option to provide free or discounted parking at a nearby garage to my customers to keep them coming and parking. So what's the problem here? Oh that's right...we can't inconvenience a handful of business owners and the entire community should give up the public space instead...what was I thinking!

[availableusername]

Originally Posted by SobroGuy

It's not a bad thing for people to shop anywhere, but it is a bad thing to cater to people who drive into a neighborhood with limited parking at the expense of residents' quality of life...and therein lies the problem. You cannot guarantee anything as you know nothing of the community or business owners.

As I alluded to earlier in the thread, I have a good friend who lives and has a business in the neighborhood. She knows a lot of the business owners. They pretty much all live there. And the rest live in another couple neighborhoods close by in Queens.

If I were a business owner, I know that I am not guaranteed private or street parking unless I provide it to customers. I know that as a business owner at anytime the city can choose to put metered parking in a currently free parking street. I know that as a business owner a street may be closed indefinitely due to flooding, construction, or some other hazard.

This is vastly different than completely closing down a street permanently for the sake of a Parisian style pedestrian plaza.

These are risks that I incur as a business owner...nothing is guaranteed to me especially street parking. So if the residents choose to put a plaza there, that is the risk I take as a business owner.

I'm still not sure how you know that the overwhelming majority of residents chose to put a plaza there. Because a city run website told you?

I also have the option to provide free or discounted parking at a nearby garage to my customers to keep them coming and parking. So what's the problem here? Oh that's right...we can't inconvenience a handful of business owners and the entire community should give up the public space instead...what was I thinking!

You realize that these business owners are part of the community right? You realize that if their businesses end up closing down, then shuttered storefronts are a blight to the street scrape right? Or is having a few people including some homeless people sitting on random ugly plastic chairs more important than that?