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1. There is no evidence to support the LL cut any corners. It was zoned to be commercial but it is being used as residential. That is not cutting corners...just being used differently. Safety is a non-issue.
Safety is a non-issue?
really?
So for the fire deparment a commercial and residential building is the same thing?
As for the morals, why should the tenant be forced to keep paying for a place that he might soon be evicted due to no fault of his own?
The landlord behaved inmorally (if you will) by renting this apt to somebody without disclosing this issue.
If the apt doesn't have the proper fire exits a residential property requires, the L/L put this person's life on the line as well.
I would not pay a dime to the L/L. If he takes you to court, the suit will be dismissed in a second due to the legality of the apartment.
And since the lease was voided, again due to the legality of the apt, I would start looking for another place to live.
@Sobroguy, step out of your landlord's shoes for a second. How would you communicate with that landlord if your are in such an illegal apartment? What type of demand will you ask for?
@Sobroguy, step out of your landlord's shoes for a second. How would you communicate with that landlord if your are in such an illegal apartment? What type of demand will you ask for?
I don't see what "talking" with the landlord will do either. The landlord is the one who is in trouble with the authorities ... by HIS OWN actions. The landlord is not the one in the driver's seat.
If I were in this situation, I would check with the authorities on the possibility of the apartments being legalized, and if it looked bad for that and it looked like the landlord would be forced to shut them down, I would move ASAP instead of hanging around.
Also, if I obtained this rental from a real estate agent, knowing that real estate agents are not allowed to rent illegal apartments, I would demand my fee back or demand them to find me a new LEGAL apartment and if they refused I would report them to the NY Department of State and it would be their license to do business on the line.
The landlord conned his tenants into signing leases that in reality provided them with no protection. He may also have placed them in danger. Morally, at minimum, he should pay these tenants' relocation fees before the City boots them from the property and they have to pay additional moving expenses and brokers' fees.
Your frined can go to the Housing Court in his borough. Ask to speak to the pro se counsel. File a law suit against the landlord for breach of lease. Open an escrow account and deposit the rent into that account. If your friend has a lease check for "reimbursement of leagal fees".
Your friend can hire an attorney or represent themself in court before a judge. The best thing is to go to Housing Court and ask questions. In truth the city can issue an order to "VACATE". That means OUT yesterday.
Because it is not legal for the landlord to CHARGE rent. Because the landlord's actions have jeopardized the peace of mind that comes from a secure home.
Why would someone choose to support someone who was behaving criminally.
If the City finds the landlord has been operating within the law, the landlord gets his money. If the City finds the building illegally occupied the tenant walks away with the escrow. Seems fair to me.
Let me turn the question around: Why do you feel a landlord renting an illegal apartment should receive rent?
1. Go the legal route, hire an attorney out of your pocket, and go through the entire legal expense, time, and headaches. If you think you simply hire and attorney and sit back and live rent free indefinitely and life is perfect taking advantage of the Landlord, you have never been involved in a housing case in NYC.
2. Speak to your landlord, and negotiate a deal out so that you don't waste time and money and headaches in litigation. If you know for a fact it is illegal, tell him you want 3 months free so you can save up a deposit, first/last month's and moving expenses. You eliminate going through all the legal hurdles and expense, and can simply find another apt. You address the problem directly with the landord, and acted responsibly and morally.
If the LL chooses not to assist you however, or if your demands are unreasonable like "I ain't paying ever and you can't get me out and you better pay me to leave"...then expect legal costs and headaches and nobody wins. And if there is any negative anything put on your credit because of this entire debacle, which can happen, it becomes your problem to fix with the credit bureau and could be a headache for years.
In effect, we are all speculating that this apt could be dangerous, which I suspect it is not. New construction has way more requirements than older housing and whether residential or commercial you will be safe. Secondly, the landlord is not behaving "criminally" and he is not a "criminal" in any way, shape or form, he is merely using the space as it is not legally approved for...which is a violation like not getting your car inspected, NOT a crime. Get it? So let's not be silly. The LL rented it, he was wrong to do so, but taking advantage of the situation is also the wrong thing to do, as is not speaking to the LL to negotiate a painless way out.
I am not saying the LL is entitled to receive rent, technically he is not, what I am saying is that talking to the LL and negotiating an exit strategy that is mutually beneficial should be your first step. If that fails, THEN legal options should be explored. And to flip this around, if a Tenant has an illegal subletter, do you think the LL should SPEAK to the tenant (on the lease) FIRST about it or just go straight to an attorney and litigation? The answer is clear.
You are not giving the LL the opportunity to remedy the situation, which could be quite favorable to you and avoid the whole drama of litigation.
Defense # 12 says: “The apartment is an illegal apartment.”
When an apartment is illegal, the space should not be used to live in, a landlord or owner can’t collect rent. So, when you are being sued for failing to pay rent, it is a defense to the nonpayment case if you live in an illegal apartment.
[/LEFT]
TRANSLATION: NO RENT.
The tenant owes the landlord neither rent nor any obligation to remedy the situation by negotiation. The landlord broke the law and it is up to him and him alone to remedy that violation. As a result of the owner's negligent behavior, the tenant may well lose his apartment by eviction, be stuck with moving costs and thus the tenant is actually being severely damaged, having done nothing but choose a rotten crooked landlord.
The landlord will likely pay a huge fine, a DESERVED fine.
What part of NO RENT is so hard to understand?
Last edited by Kefir King; 02-05-2012 at 09:22 AM..
I agree with Sobro Guy. I am a single mother owner of a legal two family brownstone in Bed stuy (had it for ten years now) Currently I have a tenant who was supposed to move out Nov first but didnt' and is refusing to pay rent. I also have an attic (what's known as an in law apt, meaning there is no real door to the apt but I do have someone living up there) In the first hearing it got thrown out because I didn't serve the paper correctly. Now I am waiting to end of Jan to proceed. In the meantime I am barely hanging on with my part time job and just scraping to pay the mortgage. For all those who think us landlords are greedy. I am the best most careful and attentive landlord in the world. This guy has no morals regardless of what the law says. I had new tenants who paid and were moving in on Nov 1st and had to pay them back all their money by taking cash advances from a credit card.. None of my bills are paid and I am nervous all the time about what will happen. I live with my two boys on the first two floors and totally depend on the rent to make ends meet. Worse still -- this guy grew up with my ex husband and my children used to call him "uncle" There are just some codes of conduct that are outside the "law". In my mind this is unconscionable. Especially after I put up with his late rent for a year and that was the primary reason for not renewing his lease. The courts are really against the landlord in this city. And I am one of the good ones who treats my tenants with love and respect as I would expect myself to be treated.
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