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Old 02-19-2012, 07:50 PM
 
460 posts, read 515,477 times
Reputation: 354

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kefir King View Post
And do your realize the argument you just made could have come straight from the pen of Joseph Goebbels?
And the argument you just made could have come from the mouth of Hitler himself. So what?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kefir King View Post
The U.S. has gone so far right in the last 50 years, that anything even approaching the CENTER is viewed as "left wing."
Far right, huh? You sure about that?

Total spending: Government Spending Chart: United States 1960-2016 - Federal State Local Data

%GDP spending: Government Spending Chart: United States 1960-2016 - Federal State Local Data

Per capita spending: Government Spending Chart: United States 1960-2016 - Federal State Local Data
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Old 02-19-2012, 09:29 PM
 
241 posts, read 510,270 times
Reputation: 93
Quote:
Originally Posted by urbanlife78 View Post
Actually the funny thing about your post, what would you be saying if they did stay all winter? I am sure you wouldn't be supporting them or commending them for sticking out the winter, you would just be complaining about how they camped out all winter long and having made any political changes or whatever. Clearly you don't like OWS, and will say anything to point out how much you don't like them, but I am betting if you took the time to talk with anyone that supported the movement, you would find a lot of common ground between yourself and those in support in the movement, but that would require you to try.
Hi, I actually do think I have a lot in common with those in support of the movement. Particularly, if you look at it from a demographic point of view. I live a middle class life. I have loads and loads of student loan (size of a mansion in the midwest). When I was fresh out of college, I blessed the stars for having landed a job, only to live completely paycheck to paycheck without even the luxury of things like cable or eating out (and yes, I was still paying off student loan). Not right now (thank god!), but not too long ago, I was working hours that made me wondered what's the meaning of life (I was working and needed tech support at 2am, while tech support in US was already closed and trying to explain my issue to someone in India is very frustrating).

I do think I have a lot in common with those supporting OWS. If they can tell me what they are trying to accomplish, I would probably be a supporter. I won't apologize for being a goal-oriented person.

If they stuck it out in the cold, I will at least think that come hell or high water, they will demonstrate that they won't rest till the job is done (even if I still don't know what that job is). I probably still won't support it (because I simply can't support what I do not know, because I don't know the goal and the path to achieve that goal), but I will probably have more respect for it. Right now, it's just a bunch of lazy fools with nothing better to do. (I know this sounds harsh. I don't mean this as a label for OWS supporters. I mean this as an honest expression of my thinking that typically I don't express out loud.)

To be honest with you, the world is big enough to have a wide range of POVs. I don't need you to agree with my POV. And I'm perfectly happy to let you have yours. I just asked that you don't claim to represent me (as I'm part of the 99%) till I give my permission for you to do so.

Last edited by yee8p; 02-19-2012 at 09:37 PM..
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Old 02-19-2012, 09:59 PM
 
Location: Staten Island, NY
7,994 posts, read 6,581,176 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yee8p View Post
I just asked that you don't claim to represent me (as I'm part of the 99%) till I give my permission for you to do so.
Bingo. I say all the time that this is my major beef with them. OWS and its supporters act as if they are the voice of this so called 99%, and when people who they say are part of the 99% don't support them, they become incredulous.
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Old 02-20-2012, 12:18 AM
 
460 posts, read 515,477 times
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The funny thing is that most Wall Street bankers are financially among the 99% as well. They really should have picked 90% or 85% - but I guess that wouldn't sound as cool.
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Old 02-21-2012, 07:44 AM
 
Location: Manhattan
20,305 posts, read 26,763,739 times
Reputation: 9133
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jester2138 View Post
The funny thing is that most Wall Street bankers are financially among the 99% as well. They really should have picked 90% or 85% - but I guess that wouldn't sound as cool.

The enemy of OWS is not the banker making 100 THOUSAND but rather the one making 100 MILLION who has dozens of politicians in his pocket.

Goals? Does any revolutionary movement start out defining goals beyond economic fairness and democracy. THESE are the goals that are clearly being chanted by OWS for anyone with ears to hear.
Do you think the French Revolution started with a clear goal of beheading a KING or was it that they wanted a fair enough wealth distribution so that people didn't starve to death.

The goal of OWS are clear enough: all power should NOT be concentrated in the hands of 1% of the population and the situation must be changed. PERIOD. If this is not a goal then what is? What could be clearer?

If having clearly defined goals is so all important then please tell me what the "clearly defined goal" of the United States has been the last 30 years? What is it today?
These questions should be easy for those of you who so loudly demand GOALS. right?
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Old 02-21-2012, 12:04 PM
 
288 posts, read 489,736 times
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Kefir King, you are not thinking clearly.

The goal of the United States is to assure that the majority of power and money be divided among a select few that bait the masses with an idea of "pursuit of happiness" and stories of "from dishwasher to millionaire" when in reality, if you're not white and not from a wealthy family to begin with, pursuit of happiness and careers from dishwasher to millionaire are not an option.

In that sense, the country is succeeding fabulously and I command it for that. After all, so thoroughly inducing a mass coma of the population over such an extended amount of time a la "They Live" is not a small feat.

All OWS is trying to do is to point out the obvious facts, to put on the glasses if you will (to continue the "They Live" metaphor). But, as in said movie, people would rather fight you tooth and nail than to put on the glasses and take a good look. Which, again, has everything to do with the magnificent propaganda and brainwashing machine put in place by the powers that be.

In this light, OWS has to appear aimless and senseless, which, to the mind of the manipulated, it of course is. And personally, I would much rather continue to marvel at the power of manipulation that notions like "the constitution", "the founding fathers", "USA", "capitalism", "socialism" and other randomly thrown out terms continue to have, than to see a bunch of rich bearded transplant yupsters trying to convince us that there is anything wrong with the way things are working right now. Because, really, when you don't look too closely there really isn't anything wrong.
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Old 02-21-2012, 12:29 PM
 
6,962 posts, read 5,516,944 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kefir King View Post
The goal of OWS are clear enough: all power should NOT be concentrated in the hands of 1% of the population and the situation must be changed. S. right?
Please dont quite the French revolution because I do recall that it ended up eating itself alive.

Now tell OWS to fix this man's house. When Barron says they need to go you know that they really need to get out. Barron can never be accused of being right wing, or even centrist.
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Old 02-21-2012, 12:32 PM
 
6,962 posts, read 5,516,944 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grigou View Post
All OWS is trying to do is to point out the obvious facts, .

And after that what? Do you think that the 1% will just roll over and change a system which obviously works well for them unless forced to do so?


So waht is OWS doing? Destroying a poor man's house and an entire neighborhood by introducing blight?

This is just what their enemies want to seeing knowing full well that the working class who live in areas like ENY fear the dysfunctional poor more than any one else.
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Old 02-21-2012, 04:31 PM
 
460 posts, read 515,477 times
Reputation: 354
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kefir King View Post
Goals? Does any revolutionary movement start out defining goals beyond economic fairness and democracy... Do you think the French Revolution started with a clear goal of beheading a KING or was it that they wanted a fair enough wealth distribution so that people didn't starve to death.
Yes, all successful revolutions had clear objectives in the beginning beyond merely "fairness" and "democracy" (which any bunch of idiots can chant). This includes the French Revolution (the result of which you don't seem to know much about or you wouldn't be citing it as an example for OWS to follow). The French Revolution began with KING Louis summoning the Estates-General to come up with solutions for France's economic problems. They failed, and within a year the Revolution had seen the proclamation of the Tennis Court Oath in June, the assault on the Bastille in July, the passage of the Declaration of the Rights of Man and of the Citizen in August, and an epic march on Versailles that forced the royal court back to Paris in October. Too many big words for you? It's OK, not everyone has critical thinking skills.

Has OWS done anything even remotely similar? HAHA! YEAH RIGHT.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kefir King View Post
If having clearly defined goals is so all important then please tell me what the "clearly defined goal" of the United States has been the last 30 years?
What kind of a question is that?

By the way dude, learn how to use the question mark.
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Old 02-21-2012, 05:27 PM
 
Location: Portland, Oregon
46,054 posts, read 28,517,146 times
Reputation: 7824
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jester2138 View Post
Yes, all successful revolutions had clear objectives in the beginning beyond merely "fairness" and "democracy" (which any bunch of idiots can chant). This includes the French Revolution (the result of which you don't seem to know much about or you wouldn't be citing it as an example for OWS to follow). The French Revolution began with KING Louis summoning the Estates-General to come up with solutions for France's economic problems. They failed, and within a year the Revolution had seen the proclamation of the Tennis Court Oath in June, the assault on the Bastille in July, the passage of the Declaration of the Rights of Man and of the Citizen in August, and an epic march on Versailles that forced the royal court back to Paris in October. Too many big words for you? It's OK, not everyone has critical thinking skills.

Has OWS done anything even remotely similar? HAHA! YEAH RIGHT.



What kind of a question is that?

By the way dude, learn how to use the question mark.
But what about the next movement that evolves from this one, or the one after that? These things evolve over time and eventually we might see one go after the government and the 1% in a very precise manner....but things like this, only time will tell.
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