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Old 02-17-2012, 05:09 PM
 
Location: Staten Island
387 posts, read 192,919 times
Reputation: 238

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Airborneguy View Post
This was my only major beef with OWS: they have co-opted "us" and if you're middle-class and don't agree with them, somehow you're working against yourself.

There's only one thing I agree with OWS on, but I doubt they truly would want to see what I want in practice: there should be NO outside money allowed in politics. ALL campaign funding should come from the government to ensure ZERO monetary influence (zero legal influence at least) on politicians. OWS says they want this, but I'd be interested to see what they actually mean by it. I'm sure they don't want money from Planned Parenthood, PETA, ACLU, ACORN, Soros', etc, out of politics. Not a single dollar of private/non-profit/PAC money should be involved in politics, period. I don't care who it comes from. I'm not even sure I'd agree with the candidate being able to use their own money.

Beyond this, OWS parts ways sharply with me. They are just another right or left group and that's not my politics. So whether I'm middle class or not, they do nothing for me and I can certainly choose to not support them whether they think they have my best interests in mind or not.
ABG, I'm right there with. I agree with 100%. No outside funding for campains.
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Old 02-17-2012, 05:20 PM
 
Location: Staten Island
387 posts, read 192,919 times
Reputation: 238
Quote:
Originally Posted by urbanlife78 View Post
Oh, so your saying they are just like the Tea Party people?
Not at all.
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Old 02-17-2012, 05:27 PM
 
3,919 posts, read 1,627,930 times
Reputation: 1747
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gtownoe View Post
I don't think I'm that naive at all. I just don't think you understand how many Americans are living under or near the poverty line.

That's a huge voting populous that's just waiting to be told the truth. I think there's enough middle class households and even wealthy households to tip the scales in this movement.

The one thing money WONT be able to buy is votes if the people finally can bump party lines.


First of all Americans dont like to think that they are poor. Note where the GOP do best. States that are on average poorer. Remember the Tea Partiers with "Obama Leave My Medicaid/Medicare/Unemployment Alone"? Most lower middle abd working class whites will do what they have done for the last 40 years. Vote GOP. Unless and until OWS begins to speak to these people in a manner that they will be receptive to (they dont like people who they consider infdolent and unpatriotic) they will not get their support.

You know OWS shouldnt be in NYC. Why arent they protesting in Alabama, GA. Miss, Tex, and all those GOP strongholds with large pockets of white poverty?

So keep on thinking that there is this big voting bloc who will support a group which has not even selected candidates to run, or an agenda for them to run on.

I guess you dont understand that your choice come November will be Romney and Obama. Both of whom raise funds heavily from Wall Street.

Think about this. Which candidate in November will be force dto represent the OWS agenda, assuming that they even know what it is? NEITHER though Obama will pretend to when he is in liberal strongholds like NY and CA.
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Old 02-17-2012, 09:19 PM
 
240 posts, read 307,485 times
Reputation: 85
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gtownoe View Post
I don't think I'm that naive at all. I just don't think you understand how many Americans are living under or near the poverty line.

That's a huge voting populous that's just waiting to be told the truth. I think there's enough middle class households and even wealthy households to tip the scales in this movement.

The one thing money WONT be able to buy is votes if the people finally can bump party lines.

So, are you saying that OWS will present a candidate that the "huge voting populous" can vote for? Or are you saying that you're going to depend on a candidate that's part of the system you know is broken to somehow help you fix it? I don't understand what you're trying to achieve.

And to those who think that wussing out the cold means nothing, of course it does! Ever since OWS got big people had wonder if they will stay through the winter. Do they have really believe in their cause that much? You just proved all these questioning folks right. OWS will take winter vacations, and will only protest when it's convenient. "You can't evict an idea whose time has came" but it will voluntarily stay home during the winter.
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Old 02-18-2012, 12:27 AM
 
Location: Portland, Oregon
34,577 posts, read 10,120,065 times
Reputation: 5611
Quote:
Originally Posted by yee8p View Post
So, are you saying that OWS will present a candidate that the "huge voting populous" can vote for? Or are you saying that you're going to depend on a candidate that's part of the system you know is broken to somehow help you fix it? I don't understand what you're trying to achieve.

And to those who think that wussing out the cold means nothing, of course it does! Ever since OWS got big people had wonder if they will stay through the winter. Do they have really believe in their cause that much? You just proved all these questioning folks right. OWS will take winter vacations, and will only protest when it's convenient. "You can't evict an idea whose time has came" but it will voluntarily stay home during the winter.
Actually the funny thing about your post, what would you be saying if they did stay all winter? I am sure you wouldn't be supporting them or commending them for sticking out the winter, you would just be complaining about how they camped out all winter long and having made any political changes or whatever. Clearly you don't like OWS, and will say anything to point out how much you don't like them, but I am betting if you took the time to talk with anyone that supported the movement, you would find a lot of common ground between yourself and those in support in the movement, but that would require you to try.
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Old 02-18-2012, 01:38 PM
 
Location: Brooklyn
2,812 posts, read 2,560,343 times
Reputation: 5159
Quote:
Originally Posted by grigou View Post
I concur. Because, as we all know, arguments, pointing out certain facts, and demanding more accountability in politics is not what counts here. What counts is facing certain weather conditions. That's how you change society
You keep missing the point. Comprehend! It's about displaying a solid commitment to the cause. You expect all of us to follow this group blindly no matter what. I think you know really well that it's not actually about a little could weather. I've hit a sensitive spot with you so you deflect.

Last edited by makossa; 02-18-2012 at 02:00 PM..
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Old 02-18-2012, 02:14 PM
 
458 posts, read 288,244 times
Reputation: 339
Quote:
Originally Posted by Airborneguy View Post
there should be NO outside money allowed in politics. ALL campaign funding should come from the government
So should Vermin Supreme get the same funding as Barack Obama? How much would that be? $10 million for their entire campaigns? $100 million? $1 billion as Obama is doing? If not equal funding, what criteria should the government use to distribute money between the two and how could it avoid being absolutely unfair, corrupt, or wasteful?

Quote:
Originally Posted by urbanlife78 View Post
Actually the funny thing about your post, what would you be saying if they did stay all winter? I am sure you wouldn't be supporting them or commending them for sticking out the winter, you would just be complaining about how they camped out all winter long and having made any political changes or whatever... I am betting if you took the time to talk with anyone that supported the movement, you would find a lot of common ground between yourself and those in support in the movement, but that would require you to try.
I can't speak for yee8p, but if they stayed all winter long I would commend them for sticking it out but continue to consider them a bunch of ignorant fools.

But they weren't able to even stick out this particularly warm winter so I can't even commend them for at least trying. In other words, they fail on all counts and are deserving of the most withering of taunting by the 99%.
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Old 02-18-2012, 02:19 PM
 
Location: Chicago
10,418 posts, read 4,943,516 times
Reputation: 2094

Police brutality and harsh tactics at OWS - YouTube
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Old 02-18-2012, 02:20 PM
 
839 posts, read 480,249 times
Reputation: 426
Quote:
Originally Posted by caribny View Post
Funny thing though. Those who have to work for a living, and not depend on funds from daddy and living on a friend's couch, don't have time for their nonsense.

OWS closed down Oakland harbor. REsult. The real 99% lost valuable working hours so were worse off.

The 1%? Didnt care as they arent in the import-export business.

Now let us see OWS try to kill the various projects to create much needed employment for low skilled workers in places like the Bronx. Fresh Direct being an example. Wouldnt it be nice if they went to Newark instead, or Elizabeth, or Jersey City? Better NJ folks find work than NYers.
They did come to Newark.
The Newark Police Department handled it though.

They were also in Trenton.
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Old 02-18-2012, 02:53 PM
 
52 posts, read 45,550 times
Reputation: 53
I agree with the sentiment that they need to have clear and achievable goals to stay relevant. The whole novelty of camping out in public spaces isn't going to be there anymore (never underestimate the brief attention span of the American public). There might be news snippits here and there due to clashes with police or disruptive marches. In general though, the whole "we are the 99%" message is out there and has been heard. Anything else new?

As far as the effects on the presidential election coming up, I doubt it will have any influence. I don't mean this in that it will be ignored or not discussed. What I mean is since the movement has chosen to stay vague as to what they want and not have any leaders or spokespeople, they open themselves up to one or both candidates hijacking their thunder and spinning the "99%" thing to their own gain. The net effect of this is zero.
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