Welcome to City-Data.com Forum!
U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > New York > New York City
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 02-23-2012, 02:57 PM
 
458 posts, read 614,860 times
Reputation: 362

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gtownoe View Post
As far as substance, I'm more than willing to give more concrete answers.

Debt:Cut military spending drastically first of all. Half of our overall budget goes towards the military. I'm pro legalization (see Portugal's success) and pro rehabilitation. I believe our current "war on drugs" is a waste of tax dollars. Our incarceration rates are some of the highest in the WORLD and we're spending way too much on drug enforcement. I'd also be for increasing taxes on the wealthy and cutting loopholes in our tax code. For the poor and middle class, tax rates would remain the same.

Corporate Greed:Regulation, regulation, regulation. Our financial institutions need to be put in check and I'd even go so far as to propose incentives for employers who take care of their employees. Americans can only spend what they have, and right now, many don't even have enough for basic neccessities. We are in a system where those who don't have money to invest (poor and lower middle class) are left out of the cash flow of our most profitable corporations. AMERICAN corporations have an obligation to take care of America. Currently, money goes directly from execs, to investors and Wall Street.
You just said more than OWS has ever said. You should go lead their protests and give them some advice. Not that I agree with nearly anything you said (it had a simple factual error or two and was still pretty vague besides), but at least it would give them slightly more concrete footing.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 02-23-2012, 04:27 PM
 
Location: New Jersey!!!!
18,953 posts, read 13,838,201 times
Reputation: 21335
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gtownoe View Post
I've got many more ideas but don't feel like typing. What are some of your ideas?
1. Public Funding of Elections. I went over this a few pages ago. I wholeheartedly believe that this would solve many of our problems almost immediately by not only removing the #1 method of political influence, but also by allowing the right-minded (not the Right ideology) people to run for office who would not otherwise have the means.

2. Term limits for all Federal elected positions. This is a no-brainer. There is no benefit to the People from having a "political class" of professional politicians in this country.

3. Phase out Social Security. Pay our obligations even if it means more debt in the short term, but phase it out COMPLETELY over time. SS has become a major burden on our budget in only 70 some-odd years. That is not a long time from a historical viewpoint. To keep it simple: any program that we cannot maintain for only 70 years is very likely a program that cannot needs to go.

4. REAL health care reform. The government over-regulates many industries based on a very flimsy claim of "interstate commerce", while health care clearly fits this bill. What Obama force on America in 2010 was not even close to what we need. Doctors ned to be unburdened from the courts, illegals need to be persona non grata in our hospitals, and health care companies need to operate under the knowledge that their first responsibility is to their clients.

5. Personal incomes tax and real estate taxes need a serious downward adjustment (including "the rich"), but corporate taxes need to be raised. Corporations are protected by the government, therefore, they owe the government. Citizens, no matter how much money they have, ARE the government, and therefore should not be crushingly burdened by governmental taxation.

6. Our military needs to be focused on defending our nation, and no one else's. Military spending needs to be downsized, but maintained at a level that ensures America is the safest country in the world and the most capable, as we should be (without shame). ALL foreign bases need to be closed. We don't need troops in countries that we can easily reach with missiles.

How's that for a start?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-23-2012, 11:04 PM
 
Location: Staten Island
387 posts, read 678,260 times
Reputation: 238
Quote:
Originally Posted by Airborneguy View Post
How? See, we can do this all day. Making statements like this won't change anything, just as writing the same statement on a piece of cardboard and walking it around downtown hasn't. What the Tea Party most definitely accomplished was getting seats in Congress. OWS hasn't even entered politics. You can be against "the system", but this system is in place and likely will be for a long time, so if you want to change it, you have to be in it.

So again, what exactly does OWS plan to do to achieve any of their goals? As I said earlier, goals shouldn't be the focus of naysayers because goals are easy to blurt out, write down, blog about, etc. It is how one works to get their goals accomplished that makes the difference. So far, all I've seen is some camping and parading around. That's not how wars are won.

In the past, I refused to support Ron Paul because I felt like he was compromising his values by being a member of the Republican Party. As I got older though, I realized that the only way for someone like him to have a voice is to be a part of the system, and in his case, that means utilizing the resources of the Republican Party. Since that realization, I've become a staunch supporter of his because his ideas align with mine, and because he is at least attemping to get something done about them, not just talking about it. I see OWS doing the exact opposite.

I understand what you are saying about Paul.

I remember when I was 18, & was able to vote in my Presidental election & Ross Perot was was running & I liked Perot alot & thought what he was saying made alot of sense & cetain predictions he made then have come true today. But because he was runing as an independent I knew he could not win. Than he melted down with his crazy behavior towards down the stretch.

I wish a 3rd party could gain traction in this country, but it can't because one thing Dems & Reps can agree on is tearing apart a 3rd party canidate to deflect from there own parties short comings.

I think Bloomberg is a perfect example of a person who was an idependent, picked the lesser of two evils & choose to run on a Republican platform & than switched back to a independent party now. Oddly enough Bloomberg comes off now an as nanny mayor liberal, but that's another story for another day.

OWS is a very Dangerous faction with radical ideas that dosn't put this Country first. They must be stoped.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-24-2012, 05:32 AM
 
Location: New Jersey!!!!
18,953 posts, read 13,838,201 times
Reputation: 21335
Quote:
Originally Posted by Baby Punisher View Post
I wish a 3rd party could gain traction in this country, but it can't because one thing Dems & Reps can agree on is tearing apart a 3rd party canidate to deflect from there own parties short comings.
This is why I believe publicly funded elections would solve a lot of our problems. Third parties, at this time, just don't have access to the sources of money that the two main parties have.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Baby Punisher View Post
I think Bloomberg is a perfect example of a person who was an idependent, picked the lesser of two evils & choose to run on a Republican platform & than switched back to a independent party now. Oddly enough Bloomberg comes off now an as nanny mayor liberal, but that's another story for another day.
Agreed. As much as I hate Bloomberg locally because the position of NYC mayor has too much power, I believe he would make great President, always have. No politician I've ever seen, researched or heard of would have the guts to do to the Federal budget what Bloomberg would do.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-24-2012, 07:25 AM
 
Location: Manhattan
25,368 posts, read 36,956,293 times
Reputation: 12767
Quote:
Yes! This this this! Why do so many people find this so hard to understand!?!? Simply stating that a problem exists does not fix it...

Correct, but it is a first step in the process. It is better than making believe no problems exist other than picking between a rightwing Democrat or a neo-fascist Republican to carry out the wishes of the corporate powers.
The recognition of problems MUST occur before FIXING them...and THIS is the need for organizations like OWS who will stand and scream until someone listens. It is a counterbalance to the unending screaming of NBC (GE), CNN (Time Warner), ABC (Disney,) Fox (Satan) that all is well "in this best of all possible (corporate) worlds" that we are forced to listen to from cradle to grave.

OWS is a voice crying in the wilderness of corporate propaganda. Perhaps some will listen. Others can watch Anderson Cooper or Bill O'Reilly tell you what the world is like and bore you to death with nonsense like Mitt Romney and Barack Obama actually are different in anything but name while they all take their money from the same sources, Corporate Amerika.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-24-2012, 08:08 AM
 
Location: USA
13,255 posts, read 12,100,383 times
Reputation: 4228
Quote:
Originally Posted by Airborneguy View Post
1. Public Funding of Elections. I went over this a few pages ago. I wholeheartedly believe that this would solve many of our problems almost immediately by not only removing the #1 method of political influence, but also by allowing the right-minded (not the Right ideology) people to run for office who would not otherwise have the means.

I'd definitely support that.

2. Term limits for all Federal elected positions. This is a no-brainer. There is no benefit to the People from having a "political class" of professional politicians in this country.

I could support this as well. However, I'm more concerned about integrity and efficiency than term limits.

3. Phase out Social Security. Pay our obligations even if it means more debt in the short term, but phase it out COMPLETELY over time. SS has become a major burden on our budget in only 70 some-odd years. That is not a long time from a historical viewpoint. To keep it simple: any program that we cannot maintain for only 70 years is very likely a program that cannot needs to go.

My generation grew up knowing that SS wasn't going to be around for us. I haven't done a lot of research on its benefits or pitfalls. We do have to cut spending somewhere though. I'm just not familiar enough about SS to make an informed decision.

4. REAL health care reform. The government over-regulates many industries based on a very flimsy claim of "interstate commerce", while health care clearly fits this bill. What Obama force on America in 2010 was not even close to what we need. Doctors ned to be unburdened from the courts, illegals need to be persona non grata in our hospitals, and health care companies need to operate under the knowledge that their first responsibility is to their clients.

I support Universal healthcare. I believe doctors should be doctors because they want to help people, not because they want to make a ton of money. There's definitely a lot of ways to skin the cat on this issue but I think we should look to some of our fellow countries out there for direction in this arena. IMO healthcare is something that we all need at one time, and your income shouldn't heavily dictate your chances of survival or general healthcare. If your legal, and have a work history, you should benefit from society.

5. Personal incomes tax and real estate taxes need a serious downward adjustment (including "the rich"), but corporate taxes need to be raised. Corporations are protected by the government, therefore, they owe the government. Citizens, no matter how much money they have, ARE the government, and therefore should not be crushingly burdened by governmental taxation.

I support increasing taxes on the wealthy and keeping taxes the same for everyone else. I agree with you on real estate taxes.

6. Our military needs to be focused on defending our nation, and no one else's. Military spending needs to be downsized, but maintained at a level that ensures America is the safest country in the world and the most capable, as we should be (without shame). ALL foreign bases need to be closed. We don't need troops in countries that we can easily reach with missiles.

I agree with this 100%. It's draining our economy. I found out yesterday that we spend more on our military than China, Russia, and the UN combined.


How's that for a start?
Now we're talking!

Even with differing viewpoints on the OWS movement, we share many common beliefs. I thought that was a great start to a productive dialogue.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-24-2012, 08:13 AM
 
Location: USA
13,255 posts, read 12,100,383 times
Reputation: 4228
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jester2138 View Post
You just said more than OWS has ever said. You should go lead their protests and give them some advice. Not that I agree with nearly anything you said (it had a simple factual error or two and was still pretty vague besides), but at least it would give them slightly more concrete footing.
You have to get involved and go out and do your own research. Talk so some of the protesters at your local rally (not the nut jobs, but the educated citizens). You'll be surprised with the diversity of ideas coming out of the movement. Just like any other large group, there's going to be some differing views in the OWS camp, but don't discount the whole movement because of the isolated events of a few.

If your just going to get your facts from the media, then your going to get facts supported by the corporate elite. They own the media.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-24-2012, 08:28 AM
 
Location: Manhattan
25,368 posts, read 36,956,293 times
Reputation: 12767
Quote:
By the way dude, learn how to use the question mark.
I guess when a dimwit is stuck for a sane argument, he can always criticize punctuation and typos.
Works for school marms.


I wonder if all those criticizing OWS for not saying anything are actually not listening. What sounds like silence may just be a case of DEAFNESS.
Perhaps if CNN collected a group of placards from OWS and selected those they deemed most likely to increase Network ratings and proclaimed THESE to be the goals of OWS, then those who get no other source of information than what they see on TV might think they understand. Or maybe the FOX network could distill the OWS movement for those not bright enough to understand CNN?

Last edited by Kefir King; 02-24-2012 at 08:39 AM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-24-2012, 02:17 PM
 
Location: Staten Island
387 posts, read 678,260 times
Reputation: 238
Quote:
Originally Posted by Airborneguy View Post
This is why I believe publicly funded elections would solve a lot of our problems. Third parties, at this time, just don't have access to the sources of money that the two main parties have.



Agreed. As much as I hate Bloomberg locally because the position of NYC mayor has too much power, I believe he would make great President, always have. No politician I've ever seen, researched or heard of would have the guts to do to the Federal budget what Bloomberg would do.
I would fear Bloomberg as President. Not because of what he would do to the budget, but for fear of how he would shred the constitution & take away civil liberty after civil liberty.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-24-2012, 03:32 PM
 
Location: New Jersey!!!!
18,953 posts, read 13,838,201 times
Reputation: 21335
Quote:
Originally Posted by Baby Punisher View Post
I would fear Bloomberg as President. Not because of what he would do to the budget, but for fear of how he would shred the constitution & take away civil liberty after civil liberty.
See I'm not worried about that if he was president, even though he definitely has shown total disregard for personal liberty as mayor. He wouldn't be able to get his ultra-liberal nanny government ideas through Congress. The only area in which the President wields extremely strong influence is in regards to the budget, and that's Bloomberg's strongpoint.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:



Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > New York > New York City
Similar Threads

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 11:11 PM.

© 2005-2024, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Contact Us - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37 - Top