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Old 02-14-2012, 10:19 AM
 
Location: Pflugerville
2,211 posts, read 3,994,880 times
Reputation: 2227

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hieronymus Bosch View Post
At least the rubber rooms get some deviants and awful teachers away from the kids. The alternative would be to let them keep doing damage while trying to get rid of them, or end up paying out even bigger lawsuits now and again.
or......you could just fire substandard teachers.
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Old 02-14-2012, 11:31 AM
 
142 posts, read 219,116 times
Reputation: 96
Quote:
Originally Posted by JayBrown80 View Post
or......you could just fire substandard teachers.
In a perfect world, good teachers would have all the job protection they need, substandard teachers would be kicked to the curb posthaste, and there would never be any sketchy cases where teachers were suspected of more serious wrongdoing without enough proof to build a real case.

In reality, it's not that simple. Teacher evaluation isn't as simple as counting how many widgets they produced and watching the security tapes to make sure they're not stealing any. It is inherently subjective. It would be convoluted and political with or without the unions.

Which is why your policy of "just firing substandard teachers" would lead to lawsuits, as I already said.
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Old 02-14-2012, 11:33 AM
 
Location: Portland, Oregon
46,054 posts, read 28,292,753 times
Reputation: 7824
ah yes, another crap on teachers thread because that is what our country needs more crap on teachers. Do we need an overhaul on our education system? Sure, but it is also laughable when people start calling teachers elitists and other garbage like they are apart of the wealthy upper class or something....plus this is something from Fox, show me something like this that didn't come from the far right and maybe I will believe it.
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Old 02-14-2012, 11:56 AM
 
1,433 posts, read 2,024,280 times
Reputation: 766
This shoudn;t be an attack on teacher unions. This should pave the way for review and an end to stupid rules and regulations that allowed this teacher to be paid for so long for nothing. When Unions or management force such bad policies, the media should be used to throw light and outrage on such issues. It should be a two way street not focused on just the Unions...
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Old 02-14-2012, 12:10 PM
 
Location: Reno, NV
821 posts, read 2,403,466 times
Reputation: 735
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fred314X View Post
Of course it's also true that contracts are arrived at via negotiation. Nobody forces management for them. Not very different from basketball players signing contracts for $150 million. You ask for what you want, and if you get it--hallelujah. It's second guessing to approach the issue otherwise.

And, of course, anyone who takes Fox News to be the standard for journalism is wearing some pretty strange-colored glasses.
It is very different, I think, when dealing with public sector unions such as the teachers. Imagine if the basketball players (or any employees of a private company) had the power to vote their bosses out of a job. That's what the public sector unions have--they vote for the politician who will meet their demands. In essence, they can control (or at least have a strong voice in) who their boss is! Private employees can't do that.

Last edited by nyctc7; 02-14-2012 at 12:22 PM..
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Old 02-14-2012, 12:25 PM
 
Location: Dallas, TX
2,898 posts, read 4,935,870 times
Reputation: 2166
Quote:
Originally Posted by nyctc7 View Post
It is very different, I think, when dealing with public sector unions such as the teachers. Imagine if the basketball players (or any employees of a private company) had the power to vote their bosses out of a job. That's what the public sector unions have--they vote for the politician who will meet their demands. In essence, they can control who their boss is! Private employees can't do that.
The only problem with that is that it's not true.

Unions don't vote their bosses out of a job.
The chancellor is appointed by the mayor and the mayor is voted by the people. If the teacher's union had their way, Bloomy wouldn't be the mayor of NYC. Obviously, that's not the case.

This whole discussion about the 'evil' unions is rooted in some sort of envy from one middle/lower class person against another middle/lower class person. Some (petty) people just can't live with the fact that some working class people are protected from potential abuse from their employer and would live that everybody would just be a wage-slave like them.
Luckily the world doesn't work that way, and organized labor is here to stay, wether you like it or not.
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Old 02-14-2012, 12:26 PM
 
4,911 posts, read 6,827,084 times
Reputation: 4279
Scroll down to vid, funny stuff...



http://curbed.com/archives/2011/03/1...n-teachers.php
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Old 02-14-2012, 12:50 PM
 
8,750 posts, read 15,567,530 times
Reputation: 4168
I don't think it is envy when people complain a teacher has been paid $100K for 11 years to do nothing. That is an outcry to stop the abuse and does not happen anywhere else...other than unionized labor..so it begs the question. WHY? Why does the union labor of the LIRR have around a 95% disability retirement rate instead of regular retirement? The answer: It is not taxed. That is not envy..that is an outcry to stop the abuse.

Need more reasons...well the "Johnny Lungs" retired firefighter, with a disability pension for "asthma" (really?), and runs numerous marathons and other such competitions....

"The Post disclosed that McLaughlin competed in the New York Marathon, numerous other long-distance races and even grueling triathlons from 2002 to the present. His Long Beach neighbors refer to him as "Iron Man" and "Johnny Lungs."
http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/j...uDASYXWMy0KqZP

That is not envy..that is an outcry to stop the abuse. And this, like other glaring examples, is why there is a backlash against Union labor. Their own greed and abuses are turning other working/middle class people who play fairly against them, and will make these unions obsolete. WE already have corporate greed, now we have another pig at the trough..Unions. STOP THE ABUSES before you make yourself obsolete...it is already happening in many states.

In this case, whether it comes from Fox News or the NY Times, the facts don't change, and we need to stop the abuses.
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Old 02-14-2012, 12:53 PM
 
Location: Nassau, Long Island, NY
16,416 posts, read 27,960,537 times
Reputation: 7250
Quote:
Originally Posted by SobroGuy View Post
I don't think it is envy when people complain a teacher has been paid $100K for 11 years to do nothing. That is an outcry to stop the abuse and does not happen anywhere else...other than unionized labor..so it begs the question. WHY? Why does the union labor of the LIRR have around a 95% disability retirement rate instead of regular retirement? The answer: It is not taxed. That is not envy..that is an outcry to stop the abuse.

Need more reasons...well the "Johnny Lungs" retired firefighter, with a disability pension for "asthma" (really?), and runs numerous marathons and other such competitions....

"The Post disclosed that McLaughlin competed in the New York Marathon, numerous other long-distance races and even grueling triathlons from 2002 to the present. His Long Beach neighbors refer to him as "Iron Man" and "Johnny Lungs."
'Johnny Lungs': Cough up more - NYPOST.com

That is not envy..that is an outcry to stop the abuse. And this, like other glaring examples, is why there is a backlash against Union labor. Their own greed and abuses are turning other working/middle class people who play fairly against them, and will make these unions obsolete. WE already have corporate greed, now we have another pig at the trough..Unions. STOP THE ABUSES before you make yourself obsolete...it is already happening in many states.
Public sector unions should be ILLEGAL! All they do is prey on the taxpayers with carte blanche from the politicians, who they pay for. Either make public sector UNIONS illegal OR make their ability to bribe (oops I mean "contribute to") politicians illegal. This game has been going on long enough and it is a DISASTER for the taxpayers.
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Old 02-14-2012, 12:58 PM
 
8,750 posts, read 15,567,530 times
Reputation: 4168
I agree...I think public sector unions should be illegal also, however it can be in the private sector as much as it wants. I don't think anyone has the guts to make it illegal, or if it is even possible to make it illegal. Either way..it's a major problem not just financially and economically but socially.
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