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Old 02-14-2012, 02:00 PM
 
Location: Nassau, Long Island, NY
16,416 posts, read 27,997,515 times
Reputation: 7250

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mistertee View Post
This shoudn;t be an attack on teacher unions. This should pave the way for review and an end to stupid rules and regulations that allowed this teacher to be paid for so long for nothing. When Unions or management force such bad policies, the media should be used to throw light and outrage on such issues. It should be a two way street not focused on just the Unions...
Cuomo is trying that.

The unions are fighting him.

Cuomo amps up pressure on teachers, Legislature
Cuomo amps up pressure on teachers, Legislature - WSJ.com

Quote:
Taking on the state's traditionally powerful teachers unions, Cuomo threatened to impose tougher job evaluations Feb. 16 if the unions continue to, as he put it, block progress. The evaluations taking into account student performance were required by law two years ago. Lack of labor agreements now threatens more than $1 billion in school funding.

Looks like they want NO regulation at all over themselves. If a simple thing like teacher evaluations (every OTHER profession is evaluated) is so threatening, do you think they want the $100K rubber room to go away anytime soon?
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Old 02-14-2012, 02:04 PM
 
Location: Reno, NV
821 posts, read 2,406,644 times
Reputation: 735
Quote:
Originally Posted by likeminas View Post
The only problem with that is that it's not true.

Unions don't vote their bosses out of a job.
The chancellor is appointed by the mayor and the mayor is voted by the people. If the teacher's union had their way, Bloomy wouldn't be the mayor of NYC. Obviously, that's not the case.

This whole discussion about the 'evil' unions is rooted in some sort of envy from one middle/lower class person against another middle/lower class person. Some (petty) people just can't live with the fact that some working class people are protected from potential abuse from their employer and would live that everybody would just be a wage-slave like them.
Luckily the world doesn't work that way, and organized labor is here to stay, wether you like it or not.
Unions have a great deal of power over who gets elected mayor. They can organize to vote as a block, and they raise a lot of money to help get elected whomever they want. That is their right, of course. But it's not the same as a private employee/employer relationship. Yes, the unions have brought some emnity on themselves. For every story about an abusive employer one can break out a story like the rubber rooms or people who magically get a disabilty right before they retire or incompetents who are impossible to fire. And that money is coming from the taxpayers. Yah, when some jerk with a high school degree making a lot more than I do by being a rude token booth clerk or whatever, it is more than just envy, it is anger. (And now that a lot of them are gone, who misses them.)

Sweet dreams!
http://subwayblogger.com/wp-content/....thumbnail.jpg

http://gothamist.com/attachments/nyc.../080510mta.jpg

http://gothamist.com/attachments/nyc...2409subway.jpg

Last edited by nyctc7; 02-14-2012 at 02:35 PM..
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Old 02-14-2012, 02:06 PM
 
Location: Nassau, Long Island, NY
16,416 posts, read 27,997,515 times
Reputation: 7250
Quote:
Originally Posted by SobroGuy View Post
I agree...I think public sector unions should be illegal also, however it can be in the private sector as much as it wants. I don't think anyone has the guts to make it illegal, or if it is even possible to make it illegal. Either way..it's a major problem not just financially and economically but socially.
FDR warned the USA a long time ago about public sector unions:

Quote:
All Government employees should realize that the process of collective bargaining, as usually understood, cannot be transplanted into the public service. It has its distinct and insurmountable limitations when applied to public personnel management. The very nature and purposes of Government make it impossible for administrative officials to represent fully or to bind the employer in mutual discussions with Government employee organizations. The employer is the whole people, who speak by means of laws enacted by their representatives in Congress.

Read more at the American Presidency Project: The American Presidency Project Franklin D. Roosevelt: Letter on the Resolution of Federation of Federal Employees Against Strikes in Federal Service
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Old 02-14-2012, 02:27 PM
 
Location: Dallas, TX
2,898 posts, read 4,944,656 times
Reputation: 2166
Quote:
Originally Posted by nyctc7 View Post
Unions have a great deal of power over who gets elected mayor. They can organize to vote as a block, and they raise a lot of money to help get elected whomever they want. That is their right, of course. But it's not the same as a private employee/employer relationship. Yes, the unions have brought some emnity on themselves. For every story about an abusive employer one can break out a story like the rubber rooms or people who magically get a disabilty right before they retire. And that money is coming from the taxpayers. Yah, when some jerk with a high school degree making a lot more than I do by being a rude token booth clerk or whatever, it is more than just envy, it is anger.
Of course it's their right to organize and vote for sombody that will look out for them. Private companies heavily lobbby our politicians so that they can lax labor laws and prevent their own employees from organizing themselves. There has to be a balancing power against those large corporations that look to erode labor rights.

I find it quite sad that you would feel envy and anger at a blue-collar worker. It speaks volumes of your mentality.
In any case, it is not the guy's fault that you're struggling and makes less than a HS gradute. Perhaps, you should organize with your co-wokers and ask for a decent wage.
Making a another blue-collar worker worse off than you, might make you feel better with yourself, but it won't improve your living situation.
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Old 02-14-2012, 02:33 PM
 
4,911 posts, read 6,838,751 times
Reputation: 4279
Quote:
Originally Posted by SobroGuy View Post

Need more reasons...well the "Johnny Lungs" retired firefighter, with a disability pension for "asthma" (really?), and runs numerous marathons and other such competitions....

"The Post disclosed that McLaughlin competed in the New York Marathon, numerous other long-distance races and even grueling triathlons from 2002 to the present. His Long Beach neighbors refer to him as "Iron Man" and "Johnny Lungs."
'Johnny Lungs': Cough up more - NYPOST.com

Yes because a couple questionable disability cases here and there with emergency service workers completely justifies the demonization of these guys getting decent pensions in this ridiculously high COL area.

I love how you still never seem to whine on about the countless welfare leeches of whom many game the system literally from birth to death and contribute nothing to society; yet blast guys who worked through 9/11 actually helping individuals throughout their lives.

Last edited by availableusername; 02-14-2012 at 02:44 PM..
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Old 02-14-2012, 02:33 PM
 
142 posts, read 219,411 times
Reputation: 96
Quote:
Originally Posted by I_Love_LI_but View Post
Cuomo is trying that.

The unions are fighting him.

Cuomo amps up pressure on teachers, Legislature
Cuomo amps up pressure on teachers, Legislature - WSJ.com




Looks like they want NO regulation at all over themselves. If a simple thing like teacher evaluations (every OTHER profession is evaluated) is so threatening, do you think they want the $100K rubber room to go away anytime soon?
Teachers are already evaluated and regulated. Anyone trying to teach because they don't want to be evaluated is barking up the wrong tree. There are many other professions with much less oversight. The sticking point here is whether teacher evaluations will be tied to student progress, a completely separate issue.

The rubber rooms are an easy way out for all sides. The union doesn't really have to step up and represent teachers in sticky and difficult cases, and the dept of ed can act swiftly to get some people out of schools without worrying about HR headaches or lawsuits.

I don't really see any good guys in this situation, but hyperbole doesn't help, either.
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Old 02-14-2012, 02:39 PM
 
Location: Reno, NV
821 posts, read 2,406,644 times
Reputation: 735
Quote:
Originally Posted by likeminas View Post
Of course it's their right to organize and vote for sombody that will look out for them. Private companies heavily lobbby our politicians so that they can lax labor laws and prevent their own employees from organizing themselves. There has to be a balancing power against those large corporations that look to erode labor rights.

I find it quite sad that you would feel envy and anger at a blue-collar worker. It speaks volumes of your mentality.
In any case, it is not the guy's fault that you're struggling and makes less than a HS gradute. Perhaps, you should organize with your co-wokers and ask for a decent wage.
Making a another blue-collar worker worse off than you, might make you feel better with yourself, but it won't improve your living situation.
It is not about being blue collar. The difference is that my salary and benefits and retirement is not being paid for by the taxpayer. It used to be that public sector workers made a sort of "deal": they had somewhat lower salaries than the private sector but in return had job protection, generous benefits including so-called "cadillac" health plans, and a solid retirement plan. But nowadays, they have all that AND are making pretty darn generous salaries as well, which also pushes the retirement obligations ever higher. You could say "good for them" or see that we as taxpayers can't afford it! In any event, I like the FDR quote in a post above. It was really my main point.

Last edited by nyctc7; 02-14-2012 at 03:04 PM..
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Old 02-14-2012, 02:42 PM
 
Location: Nassau, Long Island, NY
16,416 posts, read 27,997,515 times
Reputation: 7250
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hieronymus Bosch View Post
Teachers are already evaluated and regulated. Anyone trying to teach because they don't want to be evaluated is barking up the wrong tree. There are many other professions with much less oversight. The sticking point here is whether teacher evaluations will be tied to student progress, a completely separate issue.

The rubber rooms are an easy way out for all sides. The union doesn't really have to step up and represent teachers in sticky and difficult cases, and the dept of ed can act swiftly to get some people out of schools without worrying about HR headaches or lawsuits.

I don't really see any good guys in this situation, but hyperbole doesn't help, either.
The evaluations that are currently done mean nothing when it comes to compensation and I have never heard of a teacher getting fired for a poor one. So what are these evaluations worth?

Well, isn't what a teacher is supposed to be doing is teaching students something? I think student progress should be part of the evaluation.
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Old 02-14-2012, 02:43 PM
 
Location: Nassau, Long Island, NY
16,416 posts, read 27,997,515 times
Reputation: 7250
Quote:
Originally Posted by availableusername View Post
Yes because a couple questionable disability cases here and there with emergency service workers completely justifies the demonization of these guys getting decent pensions in this ridiculously high COL area.

I love how you still never seem to whine on about the countless welfare recipients of whom many game the system literally from birth to death and contribute nothing to society; yet blast guys who worked through 9/11 actually helping individuals throughout their lives.
As if they actually stay here instead of doubling down on a McMansion down south in a (ironically) "no-public sector union" state.
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Old 02-14-2012, 02:59 PM
 
4,911 posts, read 6,838,751 times
Reputation: 4279
Quote:
Originally Posted by I_Love_LI_but View Post
As if they actually stay here instead of doubling down on a McMansion down south in a (ironically) "no-public sector union" state.


Yes all of them. That shouldn't be questioned at all.


/sarcasm
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