What sections are considered The "South Bronx"? (Paris: brokers, construction)

[SuperMario]

Hustla, I got those precincts from a website. Im unable to find it now, but the website included University Heights twice, in the 46th precinct and the 52nd precicnt. I assume is because University Heights ranges from 180th University Ave (right after Burnside 179th) to about 194th University Avenue (right before Kingsbridge 195th). Since it covers such a large area, I really dont think you can include the area's south of 188th with Norwood and Bedford park because it's too far. The beginning of University Heights is very close to Morris Heights and infact I hear some people refer to the area as Morris Heights. I have family on 183rd University avenue and when I ask them what's their precinct they tell me "the one by Ryer". The one in Ryer is the 46th precinct.

Anyways I happen to have found another website. You need Adobe Reader to open it. Go on to page 3, they're they outline the precincts in a map.


http://www.oasas.state.ny.us/hps/dat...sparencies.pdf




Found another website.

"By that measurement, Bedford-Stuyvesant's 73rd Precinct is a leading candidate for more officers. The 73rd Precinct experienced the most substantial jump in homicides so far this year: an increase of 166.6%, to 24 murders, from nine during the 2003 period. Other trouble spots include the 46th Precinct at University Heights, where homicides jumped 128.5%, to 16 from seven, and the 60th Precinct at Coney Island, where homicides increased 75%, to 14 from eight."


As Crime Rate Drops by Nearly 5%, NYPD Credits 'Operation Impact' - October 5, 2004 - The New York Sun

[Guywithacause]

Those that believe that the South Bronx is still a bombed out mess either know nothing of Mott Haven, Hunts Point and Melrose, have visited 15 years ago, or just pushing the same old sterotypes. What you see now are few abandoned lots, ALOT of new housing including 3 family homes that are both market rate and subsidized, larger affordable housing buildigns that are aesthetically appealing, as well as upgraded infrastructure, parks, etc. Anyone that believes nothing has changed in the "south bronx" is blatantly lieing or just ignorant.

Is it a paradise...no...there is no such place in this city. Has it greatly improved..yes? It still will be a good 15 years before it is livable by the "mainstream", however those that invest now will reap those rewards later. I find neighborhoods in the mid bronx like Jerome, Valentine, etc to be far worse as there are strictly low income dense apartment buildings with little to no homes.

[Hustla718]

Originally Posted by Guywithacause

Those that believe that the South Bronx is still a bombed out mess either know nothing of Mott Haven, Hunts Point and Melrose, have visited 15 years ago, or just pushing the same old sterotypes.

Urban decay goes beyond vacant buildings and lots.

Originally Posted by Guywithacause

What you see now are few abandoned lots, ALOT of new housing including 3 family homes that are both market rate and subsidized, larger affordable housing buildigns that are aesthetically appealing, as well as upgraded infrastructure, parks, etc. Anyone that believes nothing has changed in the "south bronx" is blatantly lieing or just ignorant.

Few abandoned lots? Wrong. Manhattan has few abandoned lots south of E 96th/W 110th. The Bronx still has a significant amount of vacant lots, especially in the South Bronx. There are a lot of areas in the Bronx especially around Third Ave where you see a building standing by itself surrounded by vacant lots full of cars.

3 family houses, in other words small apartment buildings. Many market rate buildings today have been bought by outsiders and rented to locals. Subsidized units are still popular especially in the South Bronx. As for the buildings, aesthetically appealing? Maybe to you, but I see a tall box with windows, maybe a little orange/tan with grey somewhere. Fine for the low income people they house, but not going to attract "dreamers".

Upgraded infrastructure and parks? This is the South Bronx's biggest problem. A severe lack of green space and we are loosing parks. From community gardens to parks that have existed for years in need of repair. In fact the areas around the new Yankee Stadium lost a bunch of parkland and may loose more. A plan was proposed to build parks on top of parking lots (great for the kids huh?) but nothing is being done.

Originally Posted by Guywithacause

Is it a paradise...no...there is no such place in this city. Has it greatly improved..yes? It still will be a good 15 years before it is livable by the "mainstream", however those that invest now will reap those rewards later. I find neighborhoods in the mid bronx like Jerome, Valentine, etc to be far worse as there are strictly low income dense apartment buildings with little to no homes.

The South Bronx will have problems for many years to come. Sorry but the changes you see are insiginificant. There is absolutely no evidence that the Bronx is being geared towards yuppy gentrification. In fact there is overwhelming evidence the Bronx is becoming a dump for low income housing. In the end, the typical family in the South Bronx is the section 8 mother with 2 kids, struggling to make ends meat. Reality.

One or two forumers might give the old like "pessamist" or whatever they want to say. This is reality. I don't get my joy out of lieing to myself or others. I could honestly not care less about the Bronx. I don't give a **** about "archetecture" "hope" or "history". I care about the people and quality of life. Quality of life in the Bronx is LOW. Poverty is a serious issue along with all the problems that come with it. From crime to urban decay.

[NooYowkur81]

Hustla, I think a better question for you would be, is there anything that makes you hopeful about the future of the Bronx, or are there any changes currently going on that you actually like?

[Hustla718]

Originally Posted by NooYowkur81

Hustla, I think a better question for you would be, is there anything that makes you hopeful about the future of the Bronx, or are there any changes currently going on that you actually like?

The only positive change is a much needed increase in low income housing for low income people. However the Bronx needs much more. There is a steady flow of low income housing being built but it is not enough.

I see way too many families in the shelter system. The shelter system in NYC is horrible. Families are sometimes split up due to a history of domestic violence, those with a prior history will not be admitted to certain shelters (Usually family shelters). These struggling families have hard times, many get into a serious argument and one person sometimes goes too far (usually the male). Splitting the family doesn't make it any easier in the shelter system. Shelters are rough, even dangerous places. It is HARD being a single mother in the shelter system, a lot of these mothers are also young.

A lot of young Bronxites are growing up homeless today thanks to gentrification in other parts of the city leading to competition for low income housing and rising rents in the Bronx. These kids are not only living in split families but they grow up dirt poor without even a roof over their head. Many are seperated from the other parent or abandoned.

I can go on and on about what I have seen over the years but this is the Bronx reality. The poor and low income, the South Bronxites, don't care about condos or co-ops. Don't care about a Bronx museum. Don't care about a new Yankee Stadium. The poor want a roof over their head. An affordable place to live where they have enough money after paying for housing to live. Unfortunately this is not the case. Those Bronxites that do get into low income housing are very fortunate. Yes problems come with this kind of housing but once you have a shelter over your head and a few bucks to spend you can survive. Others either live in shelters, double and triple up with other families or get displaced only to start again from the bottom somewhere else.

Most of the children under 18 in the South Bronx live in poverty. The future is grim as a lot of these young kids going through so much will not grow up to be productive individuals. Even in low income housing the only positive roll models you see are the drug dealers wearing gold chains selling crack to the whores on the block. And the prison cycle continues, another generation stuck in poverty becuase with a felony you might as well be a career criminal.

This is the sad reality of the South Bronx. There is a lot more too it but that is just one piece of the pie. The South Bronx is not a good place to live. It's full of problems. Yes these problems even effect those from the outside who visit or come ot live cheap. From petty crime, vandalism, to ghetto nonscense. Ghetto poverty also has a way of bringing you down. You can walk down the street and get caught in a drug sweep for example. Unfortunately it takes the individual to get out of poverty, along with a lot of hard work and some direction. Unfortunately a lot of kids don't even have that guidance.

As for the rest of the Bronx, there are a good number of Bronx neighborhoods that are maintaining. Country Club, Woodlawn, Riverdale, ect. These neighborhoods are still doing okay.

[NooYowkur81]

Hustla, as much as I get on you sometimes for being too much of a pessimist, a lot of what you do say is true. It's just depressing as hell to dwell on it.

I live in the Bronx, and the other day for instance, I happened to be at a laundromat and some random kids walked in. I'd say they were in their mid-teens. I had on my IPod but they were talking so loud I couldn't help but overhear what they were talking about. Now these kids were talking for a while, in that whole stretch of their conversations there was nothing at all positive.

The topics pretty much consisted of fighting, who can fight, who's tougher, who's weak or an easy target, who has scars, who's in what gang, who dresses best, which girls they had sex with. Mind you about every other word was the N-word.

Now I wasn't expecting these kids to break out the tea and crumpets and start discussing world politics or global warming, but damn at least talk about one thing besides the usual ghetto bs.

As someone who was fortunate to make it out of some pretty messed up places growing up, it was pretty sad to just look at these kids and think that more than likely they pretty much have no future.

[SuperMario]

Originally Posted by Guywithacause

I find neighborhoods in the mid bronx like Jerome, Valentine, etc to be far worse as there are strictly low income dense apartment buildings with little to no homes.

Yes. I agree. In those areas streets are really narrow. All the blocks are in close proximity to one another. On 184th and Valentine, the whole block was full of people just hanging out. The WHOLE block . One would think it was a riot. Pity to those who have to walk through them.

[Elvira Black]

Hustla, I definitely understand what you're saying, but I have a little more hope about the Bronx--and not from the yuppie standpoint, but for the poor who live here.

Education is very important, and I know that many of the schools are bad. Parental involvement is important, but some parents don't get involved for various reasons. Community action is important, and there is some of that going on, but there needs to be more. As you say, more affordable housing units are being built. A solid police presence is important, but of course new recruits are dropping out because of the horrible starting salaries. Not good.

But yeah...not all the new development is going to help the residents. I still have no freaking idea what benefit a new Yankee Stadium will have..or why it is so "necessary" to build it at all. But the community did fight it, and hopefully there will be some concessions made.

[lhf1979]

Originally Posted by Elvira Black

Hustla, I definitely understand what you're saying, but I have a little more hope about the Bronx--and not from the yuppie standpoint, but for the poor who live here.

Education is very important, and I know that many of the schools are bad. Parental involvement is important, but some parents don't get involved for various reasons. Community action is important, and there is some of that going on, but there needs to be more. As you say, more affordable housing units are being built. A solid police presence is important, but of course new recruits are dropping out because of the horrible starting salaries. Not good.

But yeah...not all the new development is going to help the residents. I still have no freaking idea what benefit a new Yankee Stadium will have..or why it is so "necessary" to build it at all. But the community did fight it, and hopefully there will be some concessions made.

I'm not a fan of the new stadium idea either, but hopefully they can get that parking garage deal reneged. There's a lot of things that area needs and more car exhaust into the air is not one of them.

[Moth]

Education is very important, and I know that many of the schools are bad. Parental involvement is important, but some parents don't get involved for various reasons. Community action is important, and there is some of that going on, but there needs to be more. As you say, more affordable housing units are being built. A solid police presence is important, but of course new recruits are dropping out because of the horrible starting salaries. Not good.

Where there is poverty, there is usually births out of wedlock or failure to finish high school. Or both.

You can lead a horse to water...