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Once again sticking with Fordham Road as the unofficial border of the South Bronx today. The extreme poverty line is at Bedford Park Blvd today with pockets north of that. Simple concept blown out of proportion on here.
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Originally Posted by SeventhFloor
ok well when east harlem gets completely gentrified lets see if that whole area is called the upper east side as well
:::holding my breath:::
Using the LES as an example, East Harlem will never completely gentrify. Too many low income housing projects everywhere. In the LES, the housing projects are isolated on one side of the neighborhood and it's a different world. That's for another thread though...
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Originally Posted by yodel
I bet you could find other, more constructive ways of using your time to help your neighborhood, if that is what you are trying to do here.
Haha, why are you so upset?
Last edited by Hustla718; 09-12-2007 at 11:02 AM..
That's the issue here. The South Bronx isn't a geographic term. The reason the term was first coined was to describe the poverty filled, crime infested, minority occupied area of Mott Haven. It so happened that Mott Haven was located in the southern portion of the borough, hence the term South Bronx. As time passed, the areas sourrounding Mott Haven also went downhill. These included Melrose, Morrisiana and Highbridge. By the 80's the urban decay reached the areas of Morris Heights, Tremont, Uni Heights. Since the term South Bronx was originally used to designate poverty, it's only natural that the poverty stricken areas would also recieve that label. Due to the majority of the areas being in the southern portion, the name stuck.
Look at it this way. If the ghetto would have originated in Woodlawn the term "North Bronx" would haven been coined. If the area sorrounding it also went downhill, they too would pick up the name. So basically the only reason the term "South" was used was because thats where the poverty started.
Another analogy. Virginia is considered a southern state. Looking at a map, Virginia is located in the middle of the US. Historical significance aside, what makes Virginia a southern state? It's culture and the way of living. Just like when looking at a map, Uni Heights is located in the middle of the Bronx. What makes it the S. Bronx? The poverty, crime, minority problems that's shared by all the S. Bronx.
Another point.
When you think of the South Bronx, was the first thing that comes to mind? I know it has nothing to do with location. You, like everyone else associate the name with "slum" or "ghetto". The problems in that area were brought to the attention to everyone. As a result the area recieved help. So areas such as Morris Heights, Uni Heights and Fordham were left to suffer. Alot of people not familiar with the Bronx assume that the South Bronx is the only area in need of aid. So those areas since they're not in the South are assumed to be prospering...when in fact they're worst off nowadays. Why else do you think that the areas north of Fordham are so s**tty today? Because of this negligance.
Focus elsewhere people. The problem is not the S. Bronx anymore...its The Bronx in general.
I may seem like I want this negative term to be put on my neighborhood. I dont. But if the term "South Bronx" would help bring attention to my area, resulting in help, then so be it.
i know of no one who lives between the cross bronx expressway and fordham road that refers to their neighborhood as the south bronx. and as for wikipedia, i'm not gonna trust some b-boy writing about the south bronx for information anybody can submit an article to wikipedia. and your virginia example isnt a good one because if u go to baltimore which is considered the northeast its the same lifestyle and culture. and baltimore is further north than v.a.
so if the poverty line reaches all the way up to woodlawn then the whole bronx can be called the south bronx...lol get real. neighborhoods have specific boundaries. when you use "south" to describe something, you're using a geographical adjective to describe it. i have a suggestion....instead of the south bronx, call it the poor bronx.....that way, you're using a economic adjective to describe the neighborhood, and any block with a crackhouse on it can be called "the poor bronx", whether its in tremont parkchester or throgs neck.
I dunno, I'm pretty new to the Bronx, lived in Uptown Manhattan most of my life. But I was under the impression that Fordham in particular was just Fordham. I didn't know it was included in the South Bronx. Not that I would care either way.
Personally when I think of the South Bronx, I think of the areas around Yankee Stadium and Hunt's Point. That's just me though, don't think I'm trying to add fuel to the fire here.
i know of no one who lives between the cross bronx expressway and fordham road that refers to their neighborhood as the south bronx. and as for wikipedia, i'm not gonna trust some b-boy writing about the south bronx for information anybody can submit an article to wikipedia.
Well they'd be wrong because that area is the South Bronx and all its infamy. Unless we are mistaking it for the Upper East Side. The area between the Cross Bronx and Fordham road is a bona fide slum, hellhole.
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and your virginia example isnt a good one because if u go to baltimore which is considered the northeast its the same lifestyle and culture. and baltimore is further north than v.a.
Ummmm...no. Baltimore actually used to be a Southern City. Maryland was a slave state that remained loyal to the Union. Baltimore however, was occupied by Union troops due to is Confederate sympathies. That's now history. Things change.
Northern Virginian (Fairfax, Arlington counties) is as northern as Baltimore now is. The rest of Virginia is the true south although perhaps not in the way Alabama might be.
Well they'd be wrong because that area is the South Bronx and all its infamy. Unless we are mistaking it for the Upper East Side. The area between the Cross Bronx and Fordham road is a bona fide slum, hellhole.
Ummmm...no. Baltimore actually used to be a Southern City. Maryland was a slave state that remained loyal to the Union. Baltimore however, was occupied by Union troops due to is Confederate sympathies. That's now history. Things change.
Northern Virginian (Fairfax, Arlington counties) is as northern as Baltimore now is. The rest of Virginia is the true south although perhaps not in the way Alabama might be.
1st: thats exactly my point....you're using a geographical term to describe the economic status of a neighborhood(s)...on the map, that area is not "south" at all...central bronx if anything...like i said, call it the "poor" bronx, then location will not be a problem. the south bronx is a collection of several neighborhoods. and actually its not just the south bronx, but the bronx itself became associated with urban decay.
famous howard cosell - the bronx is burning
c'est la bronx - what a mess in french
i think the b-boys saw that krs-1 video with the 2 train in it too many times
2nd: you may be right on the history, but i'm talking about 2007. baltimore is considered northeast in 2007. not to take away from your civil war knowledge.
i know of no one who lives between the cross bronx expressway and fordham road that refers to their neighborhood as the south bronx. and as for wikipedia, i'm not gonna trust some b-boy writing about the south bronx for information anybody can submit an article to wikipedia. and your virginia example isnt a good one because if u go to baltimore which is considered the northeast its the same lifestyle and culture. and baltimore is further north than v.a.
so if the poverty line reaches all the way up to woodlawn then the whole bronx can be called the south bronx...lol get real. neighborhoods have specific boundaries. when you use "south" to describe something, you're using a geographical adjective to describe it. i have a suggestion....instead of the south bronx, call it the poor bronx.....that way, you're using a economic adjective to describe the neighborhood, and any block with a crackhouse on it can be called "the poor bronx", whether its in tremont parkchester or throgs neck.
So just because people dont call there section South Bronx means that it's not the South Bronx? Those people like you, assume that the South Bronx is a geographical term...which is not. Also people dont like associating their neighborhood with such a infamous term. So many people avoid the term. And I know you dont know every person who lives between the cross bx and Fordham rd...so just because people you know dont say it doesn't mean other people dont. As a matter of fact, people I know when not being specific refer to the area as the South Bronx.
As far as Wikipedia, it's the best article I could find. Why would a person waste their time writing a lie? At the very least, I have another person agreeing with the Fordham rd boundary....Wikipedia seems to agree with it since it's been around for more than a year. Also if it was wrong, why has nobody else stepped up and "corrected" the error? Where are your sources regarding the Cross Bronx boundary?
Baltimore is most certainly not similar to Virginia. Maybe Northern Virginia but that's a stretch. Also Baltimore is not considered North East. It's more associated with Mid-Atlantic. Virginia is southern all the way. As opposed to Baltimore which some people still call southern. Virginia is smaked dab in the middle, and yet it's the south. Just like Uni Heights is in the middle (or lower half), and it's considered the South Bronx.
If poverty reached Woodlawn, I think they would rename it. But that's in the extreme northern portion of the Bronx.....were talking about middle areas. And I already told you why they use South to describe poverty. The poverty started in Mott Haven, which is the extreme south. Then it spread to the sorrounding areas which were still in the south. So if the majority of the areas are in the South, why change the name? The areas of Morris Heights, Uni Heights are in the lower half anyways; Fordham is in the central so it's not a stretch to include those areas.
IMO the South Bronx term is outdated. Before the Urban Decay the Bronx was known as either West Bronx or East Bronx. Nowadays the areas below the expressway are arguably better off than some areas north of Fordham. Instead people wanna use the term Sobro as a geographical term because the South Bronx is synanomous with crime and poverty.
East side, west side, all around the borough, nobody seems to know just where the South Bronx begins and where it ends.
The term "South Bronx" does not appear on any official maps, said a city planner who refused to be identified because he didn't have permission from the mayor's office to speak to reporters.
"Now Fordham Road is the semi-official boundary," he said. "The boundaries keep moving northward."
This article seems to sum up the confusion. The residents of The Bronx all have different opinions. So you cant take them serious. But if you read the underline potion, a city planner said the OFFICIAL boundary was Fordham Road. He also said that it keeps moving northward. Now I know you dont think you know more than a city planner.
There, that should put it to rest.
Last edited by Keeper; 12-07-2007 at 02:14 PM..
Reason: edited copyrighted material
The term "South Bronx," has some rather vague boundaries. So I would agree that it is somewhat outdated. I also think it is pretty obvious no consensus will be reached on this forum on what exactly the South Bronx is. I mean people are basically going in a circle at this point.
Any suggestions on how to designate the different areas of the Bronx?
I'm confused by west and east Bronx. Is High Bridge considered the west Bronx? i'm confused by what's considered what.
Highbridge is most definately part of the West Bronx. Basically if you happen to know any Bronx residents back from the 40'-60's and you mention an area, the first thing they would say to you is "Is that in the East or West Bronx?" The East Bronx was more rural, residential and was flatter. Also the East Bronx doesn't use street numbers to designate areas. The West Bronx was more urban, more commercial, and has a lot of hills and slopes. Also they used street designations (eg W 183rd, E 174th etc). The West Bronx was very similar to upper Manhattan in terms of apartments, projects etc...while the East Bronx was similar to residential queens. I think the West Bronx was considered more of a ghetto even back in the day.
If you look at a Bronx Map, you would notice that the Bronx River divides the Bronx in 2 halves. Anything that is west of the Bronx river is considered West Bronx. Anything that is east of the Bronx river is considered East Bronx. This division still exists today. But was more prominent before the 70's.
Also you may notice that some West Bronx neighborhoods have streets like E 165th, E 177th...E meaning East. That's because the East/West divider in terms of street number lies on Jerome avenue, which is in the extreme west. Doesn't matter those E are still considered West Bronx because of it's location relative to the Bronx river.
Last edited by DoubleXAs; 09-13-2007 at 06:33 PM..
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