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Old 03-12-2012, 08:27 PM
 
2,471 posts, read 1,662,453 times
Reputation: 1637
Quote:
Originally Posted by Harlem resident View Post
I do understand that. But ... I know too many people of modest income, teachers and artists in particular, who could not survive here without their rent stabilized apartments. Everyone should be happy to have these people around, they are interesting, intelligent, very hard-working, contribute tremendously. The trade would be - ghetto people easily out, but they would be out also. That would not be good.

So I have encouraged people to write to landlords about problem people, make nuisance complaints, etc. The landlords usually DO want to get rid of them as well and this just gives them grounds.

And it would not do anything about the TIL building residents - low-income co-ops - for example. Many illegal activities go on in these buildings, drugs, dog breeding, and more. Or the social service housing.
As a landlord, I have nothing against teachers, artist and so forth. However just like Rent Stabilization can be used to protect desirable people, it can also be used to harbor undesirable people like the people you mentioned. So you need to pick 1 of the lesser evil. If ghettoness is a City wide plague that destroys quality of life and increases crime, then I think getting rid of Rent Stabilization out weighs the possibility of a few teachers potentially getting displaced.
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Old 03-12-2012, 09:23 PM
 
Location: Newark, NJ/NYC
1,203 posts, read 1,259,065 times
Reputation: 572
First off, the OP's idea, flat out, sucks: it's discriminatory and would have only bad results with more violence and poverty & further isolate low-income people more.

Second, I don't understand why some posters keep talking about programs such as rent stabilization as if the program has a radar of who is desirable enough to be on a program and who isn't. If you got rid rent stabilization, trust and believe you will be affecting teachers, firemen, policemen etc. As harlemresident stated, welfare recipients would not be hurt at all. Besides, even if you want to throw people on welfare out, where are you gonna put them? By law in NYC, you can't leave people out in the streets, you have to provide some kind of housing. So what new suggestion do you have...
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Old 03-13-2012, 08:17 AM
 
Location: USA
6,379 posts, read 3,696,498 times
Reputation: 2141
two wrongs won't make things right. discrimination is uncivilized.
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Old 03-13-2012, 08:44 AM
 
Location: West Harlem
3,850 posts, read 2,519,822 times
Reputation: 1651
Quote:
Originally Posted by 11KAP View Post
two wrongs won't make things right. discrimination is uncivilized.
On the contrary. Discrimination based on behavior and lifestyle is quite civilized indeed.

People living in the projects who are decent will need to begin turning in the anti-socials, and aggressively, in order that they be removed. In Harlem, anyway, those who follow the rules will be allowed to stay - income notwithstanding - and those who do not will be removed. This process is already underway and will pick up exponentially in the coming years.

People who insist on dumping garbage into empty lots will be tracked down and removed. Their neighbors, if they have not cooperated in the removal, will be removed as well.

People breeding pitbulls for sale in basements will be removed. Their neighbors, if they have not cooperated in the removal, will be removed as well.

Above all, those who refuse to raise their children responsibly will be removed, along with the children in question.

There are many programs to help people with these things.
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Old 03-13-2012, 08:47 AM
 
Location: West Harlem
3,850 posts, read 2,519,822 times
Reputation: 1651
Quote:
Originally Posted by hilltopjay View Post
As a landlord, I have nothing against teachers, artist and so forth. However just like Rent Stabilization can be used to protect desirable people, it can also be used to harbor undesirable people like the people you mentioned. So you need to pick 1 of the lesser evil. If ghettoness is a City wide plague that destroys quality of life and increases crime, then I think getting rid of Rent Stabilization out weighs the possibility of a few teachers potentially getting displaced.
It is not a question of a few, but many. The system already picks the lesser of evils, you are merely asking for a shift in that. And I can only say again, this will not impact the real problem people AT ALL.
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Old 03-13-2012, 09:29 AM
 
Location: USA
6,379 posts, read 3,696,498 times
Reputation: 2141
^ i see your point but you're not making it right, so good luck separating all the bad from the good.
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Old 03-13-2012, 09:44 AM
 
2,821 posts, read 2,371,040 times
Reputation: 1982
Harlem resident, I understand your frustration, but do you honestly believe that segregating public housing resident will solve all of these social ills?
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Old 03-13-2012, 09:48 AM
 
Location: Helsinki, Finland
5,475 posts, read 4,749,699 times
Reputation: 2411
Projects are already segregated and it's not solving anything.
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Old 03-13-2012, 10:03 AM
 
Location: West Harlem
3,850 posts, read 2,519,822 times
Reputation: 1651
Quote:
Originally Posted by likeminas View Post
Harlem resident, I understand your frustration, but do you honestly believe that segregating public housing resident will solve all of these social ills?
"Social" is not the right word, because it pushes responsibility out, away from the individual who makes choices to adhere to one set of cultural norms or another. These choices can have quite negative consequences. For example:

Why was your child shot one evening ?
Because she was unsupervised and on the streets at 3 AM.

Why have you experienced "severe economic hardship" over the past three years ?
Because while unemployed and living in a homeless shelter, you gave birth to not one but two children, from different fathers, and you recently gave birth to a third. See ? You are holding them in the news story picture about how "they" have cut off your Advantage benefits exactly when they said they would. Instead of gaining employment, you gave birth. Three times.

After years of experience, I realized that while attempting to help people improve their lives was good, if largely unsuccessful, there was another ethical imperative - being sure that decent people would be protected from the anti-socials. This means everything from safety from gun violence, assaults, and robberies, to freedom from litter everywhere, freedom from aggressive and unsupervised children, freedom from street harassment by the sub-welfare tenants on 127th street who insist on hanging out on the front steps for precisely that reason.

I think my understanding partly grew out of the concrete observation that there are A LOT of programs and resources to help people, and that few people will try to do anything without a legal imperative. People either want to change or they do not, and before they want to change, they should be prevented from impacting the lives of others negatively.

So ... I think you misunderstood. I would not propose anything as a "help." They need to help themselves. I am now thinking more of mitigating the truly negative impact the ghetto lifestyle has for everyone around - no exception, and especially including their own children, who, by the time they are finally removed, are often too far gone.
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Old 03-13-2012, 10:09 AM
 
Location: West Harlem
3,850 posts, read 2,519,822 times
Reputation: 1651
Quote:
Originally Posted by 11KAP View Post
^ i see your point but you're not making it right, so good luck separating all the bad from the good.
I just explained that. Those who follow the rules will be identified as "the good."

Those who do not will be identified as "the bad."

The catch: Some who could be good will be lumped with the bad because they will be seen as complicit. Hence, my advice above.

Pitbull breeding in the basement ? Turn them in.

Small child out late at night, in the care of a ten year-old sibling ? Turn them in.
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