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you should all march to 1 police plaza and protest! going on citydata complaining isnt gonna change sh**
or like jaybrown says, sue the whole police department and demand your rights!
Actually city-data could serve as a platform to organize something relevant if enough people cared about an issue.
People who say "ohh you whiners stop complaining about this or about that" don't realize that much of the social progress we've made as a nation has been accomplished by complaining and whining about injust practices.
Does the civil rights movement sound bells?
If not, it should. Without people complaining and protesting systematic discrimination it would probably still be illegal to have inter-racial marriages in the south.
If people don't speak up and complain, then, we run the risk of becoming complacent, and that's dangerous proposition in any society, and a sure path to a more controlling way of government.
I don't see what that has to do with anything? If you read my post you will see that I am saying most people don't have a lawsuit against the city because their rights are NOT being violated. In fact, most people don't even know what their rights are.
And more tragically, they do not understand the responsibility that goes with those rights. This is one of the reasons people from elsewhere ridicule the uneducated and childish Americans. Lots of complaining about "my rights," lots of entitlement, but no engagement of the responsibilities of citizenship. And certainly no fulfillment of these responsibilities.
Typing words is so pointless. Why does the meaning matter?
We might not meet all of the above, but according to several of the definitions, police stopping and frisking citizens without just cause is a direct attack on that person's liberty. What if I say no, you can't search me? Do I go to jail for disobeying orders? Do we live in a police state?
If you don't understand what I'm trying to say its pointless debating with you.
Actually, if you had bothered to read the whole thread before you spouted off, you would see I had already answered the questions you pose above.
I would recommend you actually research and understand what your 4th Amendment rights are. You are not correct in what you think they are. I have already included the relevant case studies, specifically on stop and frisk, earlier in the thread. I am not going to repeat them because you can't be bothered to read.
You are like most people on this thread...you have no idea what your constitutional rights are. You just "know" that you have the right to do whatever you want and you "know" that all police are bad.
Actually know your rights before you complain they are being violated. Stop and Frisk is legal, is not a violation of your rights, and has been upheld by the Supreme Court underneath the 4th amendment.
It sounds to me that your definition of "liberty" is "the freedom to do whatever I want whenever I want."
But for the vast majority of people, including the apparently homogenous "black and brown" group constantly under discussion, that is precisely the definition at hand.
Actually city-data could serve as a platform to organize something relevant if enough people cared about an issue.
People who say "ohh you whiners stop complaining about this or about that" don't realize that much of the social progress we've made as a nation has been accomplished by complaining and whining about injust practices.
Does the civil rights movement sound bells?
If not, it should. Without people complaining and protesting systematic discrimination it would probably still be illegal to have inter-racial marriages in the south.
If people don't speak up and complain, then, we run the risk of becoming complacent, and that's dangerous proposition in any society, and a sure path to a more controlling way of government.
The civil rights movement did not happen because people complained on the internet.
The civil rights movement occured because people KNEW what their rights were, and they organized and brought national attention to their plight. And they often used the courts to do that. Look at the current battle for gay rights. They use the court. They do more than go on the internet to whine.
It is silly to say "We are affecting a change for civil rights by being uninformed of our actual rights and complaining anonymously on an internet forum!"
I repeat....if your civil rights are actually being violated, then sue!
But no one WILL sue, b/c their rights are not being violated. Stop and frisk has been upheld as consitituional by the Supreme Court for over 40 years now. No one knows their rights, but boy they complain about them being violated.
Actually know your rights before you complain they are being violated. Stop and Frisk is legal, is not a violation of your rights, and has been upheld by the Supreme Court underneath the 4th amendment.
It is important to pay attention to this. And the comments about the civil rights movement and the courts is also absolutely right. On the other hand, we will now hear tedious and worn-out arguments about people controlling the courts. Hey, it's easier than actually involving yourself in the system and attempting to bring about change.
It reminds me of some time ago, when we first moved to Harlem against the wishes of my significant other - who grew up here. One of the new Chase bank ATM lobby doors was constantly out of order. All I heard, every time I went, was a lot of complaining outside and "racism" and "they don't service Harlem" and similar. The usual "we are victims" stuff. One guy even confided to me that "the Jews" controlled the banks and that they had always been out to get "the black man" since they sold him into slavery. Yeah.
In the meantime, I was calling and complaining, constantly. So I started asking people, Did you call ? Did you complain ? The answer was always NO, and then the usual conspiracy narratives would begin anew. In other areas, services are better, things improve, because the majority of people complain to those venues that might resolve the problems. Not a few people, with many people not complaining and many others sabotaging, but many people. That's because they would like to enjoy a certain standard of life, and to go on with whatever work they have found for themselves, rather than being bogged down with a bunch of baloney.
And about the bank door ? They told me that people kept jamming the door open and it malfunctioned for this reason. They also said that installing too many cameras to discourage this had meant lawsuits about "civil rights" and surveillance. Funny how downtown, for example, people constantly push for more cameras. As we are here as well.
The civil rights movement did not happen because people complained on the internet.
The civil rights movement occured because people KNEW what their rights were, and they organized and brought national attention to their plight. And they often used the courts to do that. Look at the current battle for gay rights. They use the court. They do more than go on the internet to whine.
It is silly to say "We are affecting a change for civil rights by being uninformed of our actual rights and complaining anonymously on an internet forum!"
I repeat....if your civil rights are actually being violated, then sue!
But no one WILL sue, b/c their rights are not being violated. Stop and frisk has been upheld as consitituional by the Supreme Court for over 40 years now. No one knows their rights, but boy they complain about them being violated.
Actually people didn't complain on the internet back in the 60's because there was none!
But now that we have it, it has proven to be a powerful and efficient engine of social involvement. Recent proof of this are the protests across the middle east, which for the most part, were organized through social media outlets.
As for the civil rights movements, let's get this straight;
Black people DID NOT, let me repeat, DID NOT have rights as whites did. Black people as per the law of those times COULD NOT marry whites, go the the same schools as whites, etc...
It's not like they had rights and knew they were being violated. No, they did not have any rights.
They bitched, whined and protested to get them. The civil rights act of 1964 is what gave them rights, or to put it in better terms, is what banned discriminatory practices.
Likewise, if people feel strong enough about the unfairness of the current stop & frisk policy, they have all the rights in place to whine and complain about them and perhaps make a lasting change that will outlaw that policy. But as you rightly point out, the supreme court has already weighted-in, and unless a constitutional amedment is passed, I don't see this changing anytime soon.
Most blacks and latinos stopped "comply". Do yopu think they will be dumb enough to mouth off when the only witnesses will be the cops?
Of course you being white arent slammed against the wall, called names, have reasons to fear abuse or false arrest.
You know the system will treat you fairly.
Understand that many dont think like you......and they have good reason to think this.
Put yourself in the shoes of a young black/latin kid doing the right thing, strong family, college bound, avoiding hanging with bad elements and then gets slammed against a wall by some cop who has no evidence to back up his "suspicions". What message is being sent?
Cops slammed me against the wall for nothing too, dawg. Welcome to life. Long as they don't plant shi* on you, it's whatever. There's bad apples in every profession. O and I did put myself in their shoes. Soon as I opened my mouth, and they heard my Russian accent, those rednecks cops treated me like I was black. In another situation, some cops unleashed dogs on my comrade for nothing so I feel your pain.
STILL, I stand by my earlier post from page 9.
Last edited by OleSchoolFool; 04-04-2012 at 06:51 PM..
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