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Old 04-02-2012, 07:32 AM
 
Location: NYC
2,172 posts, read 2,806,231 times
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White people DO choose to live with black people in middle class neighborhoods when they discover shared values. I has happened elsewhere -- not so much in NYC. My African American and Caribbean friends (although they are not recently arrived) and family all live in mixed communities OUTSIDE of NYC. I there are more mixed communities in the South! Perhaps because they are brand new subdivisions with no "neighborhood memory" -- like a clean slate, so to speak. Neighborhoods here have deep and dark racial history, and I believe people carry certain feelings about places and the people who live there - even if the neighborhood has changed (i.e., ask a black person about Bensonhurst. They will think Italians but its very Asian now.)

A question to the people on the forum who have said that white people live together to be among common people. Do you not find black people in NYC with whom you have shared values? I can imagine that's so because aside from heavily Caribbean neighborhoods like Laurelton, there aren't many black middle class enclaves anymore. And, maybe such neighborhoods are perceived as ethnic as opposed to middle class. I don't know, so I'm tossing out the question to you.

TO ALL: Do you know of places outside of NYC where blacks and whites live together in middle class communities? Do you think it is possible here? Why or why not?

Last edited by queensgrl; 04-02-2012 at 07:55 AM..
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Old 04-02-2012, 09:54 AM
 
1,529 posts, read 1,570,176 times
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This is an extremely interesting thread. Thank you queensgrl for bringing up this topic.

I have always believed that the biggest lie we were ever fed is one of "race". The concept of race was actually invented, yes invented, several hundred years ago- any reputable anthropologist or biologist knows this and can prove it. Race was invented for justification of slavery and colonialism but also to maintain economic divisions between the haves and have nots and to make sure the poor whites (which there were and are many) would not band together with the poor blacks and overthrow the rich whites (which there were and are few). This lie was so well perpetrated that to this day, people think that skin shade, hair texture, or eye shape will determine how well you can relate to someone else who shares your culture (meaning despite looks; Asian American, African American, Caucasian American, etc are all American and despite different ethnic backgrounds, after about one generation, one becomes assimilated into the overarching American culture).

Given a shared nationality, the real common thread between groups is economic: rich people have things in common with other rich people and poor people have things in common with other poor people. If you look at something like your work environment, where you are "forced" to interact with different types of people, you may notice that you get a long quite well with your work peers regardless if they are white, black, Asian, or Hispanic. That's because you all fall within the same social economic strata. If you're a lawyer, your immediate peers hold the same level of education and income that you do. If you're an IT person, same story. It's also the same story if you work the register at McDonald's. Your similar social economic status is what creates the similarities. I don't know about everyone else, but I have some great white and Asian friends at work.

So back to the OP topic: we've been fed lies that "race" makes us so different that black people and white people wouldn't [want to] live in the same communities. But that's because we cant look beyond the lies of race and understand that middle class is middle class (or rich is rich and poor is poor) and if someone can afford a $500K+ home, they probably have a hell of a lot more in common with you than you might think.
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Old 04-02-2012, 10:05 AM
 
Location: NYC
2,172 posts, read 2,806,231 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jad2k View Post
This is an extremely interesting thread. Thank you queensgrl for bringing up this topic.

middle class is middle class (or rich is rich and poor is poor) and if someone can afford a $500K+ home, they probably have a hell of a lot more in common with you than you might think.
Thank you Jad2k, for enjoying my post. It is something I have wanted to discuss for a long time here, and I am OVERJOYED that people are talking. Maybe this will help to shatter some of the illusions we have about each other because I do think that we have a lot in common -- especially middle class and hard-working New Yorkers.

I put it to this group to try to push past race and try to know the INDIVIDUAL.
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Old 04-02-2012, 10:33 AM
 
Location: USA
6,698 posts, read 4,068,260 times
Reputation: 2325
some people are afraid of their
children growing up and and
having interracial sex i guess.
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Old 04-02-2012, 10:44 AM
 
Location: NYC
2,172 posts, read 2,806,231 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nykiddo718718 View Post
I think it should be added, since this was mentioned earlier. When it come to majority Hispanic neighborhoods I always saw it easier to blend in since they are already racially and culturally diverse. The biggest dividing lines were style of dress and mannerism in the past, mostly among the youth. Nowadays I think speech and mannerisms are the only difference. Easy to desquise while out and about. Stereotypical "hipster style" dressing is huge in areas like Bushwick. The days of the baggy jeans and Hip Hop brands are largely in the past.

By comparison Whites in Black neighborhoods stick out like a sore thumb.
I am a brown-skinned African American woman with curly hair, living in a Columbian neighborhood. I stand out. Would it make more sense for me to live in the Northeast Bronx (Jamaicans) or East Flatbush (Caribbeans) or in Washington Heights (Dominicans) because I "blend in" better?

Are you saying that a white person would choose a Hispanic neighborhood (let's use Bushwick as an example) over PLG or Crown Heights because on the color scale, they're more likely to blend in? I guess I don't understand that logic because people repeatedly ask "IS IT SAFE?" If safety is paramount on my list, I wouldn't choose to live in a high crime area.

Maybe there's a perception that "blending in" will make you safer. But personally, I'd rather find a neighborhood IS safe, and that has people with values similar to mine. I wouldn't be able to trust the illusion of safety. I could just as well be mugged or assaulted in any of the neigborhoods that I mentioned above eventhough I blend in. But nothing has ever happened to me in my neighborhood where I don't.

Last edited by queensgrl; 04-02-2012 at 11:01 AM..
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Old 04-02-2012, 10:56 AM
 
1,529 posts, read 1,570,176 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by queensgrl View Post
White people DO choose to live with black people in middle class neighborhoods when they discover shared values. I has happened elsewhere -- not so much in NYC. My African American and Caribbean friends (although they are not recently arrived) and family all live in mixed communities OUTSIDE of NYC. I there are more mixed communities in the South! Perhaps because they are brand new subdivisions with no "neighborhood memory" -- like a clean slate, so to speak. Neighborhoods here have deep and dark racial history, and I believe people carry certain feelings about places and the people who live there - even if the neighborhood has changed (i.e., ask a black person about Bensonhurst. They will think Italians but its very Asian now.)

TO ALL: Do you know of places outside of NYC where blacks and whites live together in middle class communities? Do you think it is possible here? Why or why not?
I've noticed more "mixing", especially in the South. I was in Richmond, VA not too long ago and was surprised to see so many interracial couples. I don't have any theories on it yet but your "neighborhood memory" is an interesting one. There is a lot more land in the South so when new developments pop up and give younger people the opportunity to buy, the new area will attract anyone that can afford the homes. Also, since it's not yet known as a "white" or "black" area there's probably not that question of "is this a black/white/ghetto" neighborhood. That mixing in turn will create more mixing where you end up with more interracial couples down the line (hence what I was seeing in Richmond).
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Old 04-02-2012, 11:18 AM
Status: "Write the vision and make it plain" (set 29 days ago)
 
31,886 posts, read 37,849,021 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by queensgrl View Post
White people DO choose to live with black people in middle class neighborhoods when they discover shared values. I has happened elsewhere -- not so much in NYC. My African American and Caribbean friends (although they are not recently arrived) and family all live in mixed communities OUTSIDE of NYC. I there are more mixed communities in the South! Perhaps because they are brand new subdivisions with no "neighborhood memory" -- like a clean slate, so to speak. Neighborhoods here have deep and dark racial history, and I believe people carry certain feelings about places and the people who live there - even if the neighborhood has changed (i.e., ask a black person about Bensonhurst. They will think Italians but its very Asian now.)

A question to the people on the forum who have said that white people live together to be among common people. Do you not find black people in NYC with whom you have shared values? I can imagine that's so because aside from heavily Caribbean neighborhoods like Laurelton, there aren't many black middle class enclaves anymore. And, maybe such neighborhoods are perceived as ethnic as opposed to middle class. I don't know, so I'm tossing out the question to you.

TO ALL: Do you know of places outside of NYC where blacks and whites live together in middle class communities? Do you think it is possible here? Why or why not?
To your last point, I think it is possible. Even Detroit has middle and upper middle class neighborhoods that are mostly Black, but still have their share of people of other backgrounds.

Here in Syracuse, our East Side neighborhoods tend to fit what you are talking about. For instance, the Salt Springs neighborhood is about 66% Black and ranges from working class to some that are upper middle class. Its eastern half is around the national average in terms of poverty, but is still around 60% Black. Rochester has the 19th Ward and Buffalo has Hamlin Park as other examples in Upstate NY. There are other mixed neighborhoods, but those 3 are mostly Black. I might have missed a few others up here.

Last edited by ckhthankgod; 04-02-2012 at 11:27 AM..
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Old 04-02-2012, 01:33 PM
 
Location: now nyc
1,460 posts, read 2,058,903 times
Reputation: 1159
Quote:
Originally Posted by queensgrl View Post
White people DO choose to live with black people in middle class neighborhoods when they discover shared values. I has happened elsewhere -- not so much in NYC. My African American and Caribbean friends (although they are not recently arrived) and family all live in mixed communities OUTSIDE of NYC. I there are more mixed communities in the South! Perhaps because they are brand new subdivisions with no "neighborhood memory" -- like a clean slate, so to speak. Neighborhoods here have deep and dark racial history, and I believe people carry certain feelings about places and the people who live there - even if the neighborhood has changed (i.e., ask a black person about Bensonhurst. They will think Italians but its very Asian now.)

A question to the people on the forum who have said that white people live together to be among common people. Do you not find black people in NYC with whom you have shared values? I can imagine that's so because aside from heavily Caribbean neighborhoods like Laurelton, there aren't many black middle class enclaves anymore. And, maybe such neighborhoods are perceived as ethnic as opposed to middle class. I don't know, so I'm tossing out the question to you.

TO ALL: Do you know of places outside of NYC where blacks and whites live together in middle class communities? Do you think it is possible here? Why or why not?
There are a number of middle class communities on LI that are racially mixed. I'm not all that familiar with other regions of the country so I can't comment on them but i'm sure they exist everywhere.

But these types of communities face additional challenges. Since they are talked down about so frequently by others (who usually don't even live in the area), they struggle to maintain their reputations and "desirability". As a result, some potential homebuyers may be more reluctant to buy in such area.

It's really unfortunate. Diverse areas can flourish if they're given the opportunity to but people are so quick to jump on them saying they're "going downhill", "changing for the worst", having an increase in the "ghetto element" and whatever other overly-politically correct term that helps them disguise their closet racism.

Last edited by LongIslandPerson; 04-02-2012 at 01:42 PM..
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Old 04-02-2012, 02:30 PM
 
Location: West Harlem
3,958 posts, read 2,784,759 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jad2k View Post
If you're a lawyer, your immediate peers hold the same level of education and income that you do. If you're an IT person, same story. It's also the same story if you work the register at McDonald's. Your similar social economic status is what creates the similarities.
This is the case. Moreover, there is the fact that interracial dating and marriage are increasingly common, at least in many regions of the US. I work with many young people and here this is no longer an issue. Racism will die, I think, because race distinctions will literally be bred out, and sooner than people think.

At that point, people will be forced to confront the actual difference - class affiliation. Every day I meet people who will insist to me that there is some mythical "black" identity. Whereas, class distinctions are far too powerful for that to be true.
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Old 04-02-2012, 02:34 PM
 
Location: West Harlem
3,958 posts, read 2,784,759 times
Reputation: 1713
Quote:
Originally Posted by LongIslandPerson View Post
There are a number of middle class communities on LI that are racially mixed. I'm not all that familiar with other regions of the country so I can't comment on them but i'm sure they exist everywhere.

But these types of communities face additional challenges. Since they are talked down about so frequently by others (who usually don't even live in the area), they struggle to maintain their reputations and "desirability". As a result, some potential homebuyers may be more reluctant to buy in such area.

It's really unfortunate. Diverse areas can flourish if they're given the opportunity to but people are so quick to jump on them saying they're "going downhill", "changing for the worst", having an increase in the "ghetto element" and whatever other overly-politically correct term that helps them disguise their closet racism.
People identify a "ghetto element" when they see it, and who would want to live with that ? In this area, it is simply not the case that people look at a black businessman and recognize him as "ghetto." There could be a few nuts, but who cares ? There always are.
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