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Old 04-20-2012, 02:32 PM
bg7
 
7,698 posts, read 7,652,223 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by silly_mama2002 View Post
They are useless because they kids are not being tested on the curriculum, instead the curriculum is based on the tests. Do you find standardized tests very thoughtful? These are not subject-matter based tests. They test to the lowest common denominator, which is what is now taught in our schools. All kids are clumped together regardless of their interests or abilities. For example, one of my kids loves, loves science and wants to spend more time doing it, but he is told that the school gets only 2 science classes per week in the spring because the rest of the time is dedicated to test prep. Test prep simply means that they do practice tests from booklets from prior years. Would you consider that learning?

ELA tests basic reading and comprehension skills, the math test does the same for math. Niether involve rote learning or just repeating facts, they test application of skills. Learning those skills - is learning. Both English skills and Math are basic stuff every kid should know by the time they leave school, and testing help gets them there. Criticizing tests and asking public schooling to be personally tailored around your kid's interest in botany and video games is just daft. Although highly fashionable of course.
If your kids like science, then give them what they need to develop it further. God knows there are enough resources available nowadays for that.
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Old 04-20-2012, 03:15 PM
 
136 posts, read 197,620 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bg7 View Post
ELA tests basic reading and comprehension skills, the math test does the same for math. Niether involve rote learning or just repeating facts, they test application of skills. Learning those skills - is learning. Both English skills and Math are basic stuff every kid should know by the time they leave school, and testing help gets them there. Criticizing tests and asking public schooling to be personally tailored around your kid's interest in botany and video games is just daft. Although highly fashionable of course.
If your kids like science, then give them what they need to develop it further. God knows there are enough resources available nowadays for that.
Disagree. The studying for these tests does involve rote repetition, not thinking. Big difference. I just spent 2 months going through these books and there is no knowledge within. Besides, why test instead of teach it straight? Science is not botany and video games, science is a vast discipline that should be taught in school, not through my individual resources. That is why we are importing brains in lieu of developing our own intellectuals. Noone is asking for specially tailored curriculum, but I do ask that my kids get taught the basics instead of the basics of standardized testing. Again, big difference there.
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Old 04-20-2012, 03:28 PM
bg7
 
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"The studying for these tests does involve rote repetition"?

How can you state that? For example, every poem in each ELA test is different, and challenging for kids to understand. No pre-learning of facts can get them there, its application of skills, thats the point. No repetition to get there.

And as a former PhD scientist myself, I can tell you the reason we have to import brains is because post-docs get paid $30K or less, whereas MD's and math PhDs in finance get paid 100's of ks. Thats why there are few Americans pursuing science after undergrad., they follow the bucks. And thats why the vacanices are filled with young adults from countries (like China and India) where a US scientific career actually seems like a good deal.
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Old 04-20-2012, 03:44 PM
 
136 posts, read 197,620 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bg7 View Post
"The studying for these tests does involve rote repetition"?

How can you state that? For example, every poem in each ELA test is different, and challenging for kids to understand. No pre-learning of facts can get them there, its application of skills, thats the point. No repetition to get there.

And as a former PhD scientist myself, I can tell you the reason we have to import brains is because post-docs get paid $30K or less, whereas MD's and math PhDs in finance get paid 100's of ks. Thats why there are few Americans pursuing science after undergrad., they follow the bucks. And thats why the vacanices are filled with young adults from countries (like China and India) where a US scientific career actually seems like a good deal.
The materials made be different, but kids are not taught to read and think about the materials, they are taught to find the right answer. It is a completely different thought process. Regardless of the quality of the material, and its not that great mind you, they are not being taught to think about it and to appreciate it. They are being taught to bubble in the best response.

As a former finance employee i can tell you that the $100,000K jobs are also filled with kids from China, Russia and India, not American kids. Its not the lack of opportunity it the lack of ability that is keeping our kids out of these jobs. Because our kids are not taught to think!
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Old 04-20-2012, 03:46 PM
 
Location: Long Island, NY
7,846 posts, read 10,275,462 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bg7 View Post
ELA tests basic reading and comprehension skills, the math test does the same for math. Niether involve rote learning or just repeating facts, they test application of skills. Learning those skills - is learning. Both English skills and Math are basic stuff every kid should know by the time they leave school, and testing help gets them there. Criticizing tests and asking public schooling to be personally tailored around your kid's interest in botany and video games is just daft. Although highly fashionable of course.
If your kids like science, then give them what they need to develop it further. God knows there are enough resources available nowadays for that.
That is was should be the purpose of the state tests but at the end of the day, or should I say at the end of the school year, it doesn't matter what the student scored because whether they passed or failed, they will be placed in a class with students of various intellects and talents. This is what peeves parents. Those scores reflect on the school districts, school report cards and teachers. If a student fails, all it means is that they are required to attend extra help for either math or english (whichever they failed). It doesn't aid in the placement of a student. It doesn't even determine if a child is promoted. You can have a child that excells all year round but freezes up when it's time to take the tests and ends up failing them. It doesn't mean that the student lacks the skill when they carried a B average on their report card for 2 marking periods. There is an immense amount of pressure put on the students when it comes to these tests.
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Old 04-20-2012, 03:48 PM
 
136 posts, read 197,620 times
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Originally Posted by bellakin123 View Post
That is was should be the purpose of the state tests but at the end of the day, or should I say at the end of the school year, it doesn't matter what the student scored because whether they passed or failed, they will be placed in a class with students of various intellects and talents. This is what peeves parents. Those scores reflect on the school districts, school report cards and teachers. If a student fails, all it means is that they are required to attend extra help for either math or english (whichever they failed). It doesn't aid in the placement of a student. It doesn't even determine if a child is promoted. You can have a child that excells all year round but freezes up when it's time to take the tests and ends up failing them. It doesn't mean that the student lacks the skill when they carried a B average on their report card for 2 marking periods. There is an immense amount of pressure put on the students when it comes to these tests.
Absolutely, and these kids are from 7-10 year old.
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Old 04-20-2012, 04:01 PM
bg7
 
7,698 posts, read 7,652,223 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by silly_mama2002 View Post
The materials made be different, but kids are not taught to read and think about the materials, they are taught to find the right answer. It is a completely different thought process. Regardless of the quality of the material, and its not that great mind you, they are not being taught to think about it and to appreciate it. They are being taught to bubble in the best response.

As a former finance employee i can tell you that the $100,000K jobs are also filled with kids from China, Russia and India, not American kids. Its not the lack of opportunity it the lack of ability that is keeping our kids out of these jobs. Because our kids are not taught to think!
Well of course those from poorer countries with half-decent education systems that CAN get finance jobs will come here too, but many simply do not have that option. And if you want rote-learning go to a school in China, India or Korea - that's what you'll get - it works very well for fact-based subjects.
Its simply a myth kids are not taught to think nowadays - that was the case 25 years ago, when it was regurgitation only.
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Old 04-20-2012, 04:04 PM
bg7
 
7,698 posts, read 7,652,223 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bellakin123 View Post
That is was should be the purpose of the state tests but at the end of the day, or should I say at the end of the school year, it doesn't matter what the student scored because whether they passed or failed, they will be placed in a class with students of various intellects and talents. This is what peeves parents. Those scores reflect on the school districts, school report cards and teachers. If a student fails, all it means is that they are required to attend extra help for either math or english (whichever they failed). It doesn't aid in the placement of a student. It doesn't even determine if a child is promoted. You can have a child that excells all year round but freezes up when it's time to take the tests and ends up failing them. It doesn't mean that the student lacks the skill when they carried a B average on their report card for 2 marking periods. There is an immense amount of pressure put on the students when it comes to these tests.
Middle school ELA & math test results do indeed have a role in which High schools the kids get into. So what do you mean?
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Old 04-20-2012, 04:09 PM
bg7
 
7,698 posts, read 7,652,223 times
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Isn't there a home-schooling thread on here for the perpetually dissatisifed-with-my-kids-education crowd?

Meanwhile, while Asian students are the absolute majority at all specialized NYC high schools despite being the smallest minority in the population, cos they bust their asses and do what needs to be done, the coddling parents are moaning about basic English and math tests. And then pointing out that we have to import brains from other countries. You know, where they take tests.
What a conundrum eh.
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Old 04-20-2012, 04:09 PM
 
Location: Long Island, NY
7,846 posts, read 10,275,462 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bg7 View Post
Middle school ELA & math test results do indeed have a role in which High schools the kids get into. So what do you mean?
no they don't. On Long Island you don't pick what school you want to attend. Unless you want to attend a specialized school, you go to the school you're zoned for. And what I mean by placement is that it doesn't determine if a student is gifted or requires special ed. Those programs are based on other criteria.
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