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Old 04-21-2012, 08:58 PM
 
Location: NYC
2,172 posts, read 2,758,810 times
Reputation: 987

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Quote:
Originally Posted by hilltopjay View Post
Yes. That's exactly what happens. It's a one sided victory.
No. If they're not moved "en masse" creating new "ghettos" it doesn't happen. Using the Chicago example, my friends own a house in one of the south suburbs and they wanted to move back to the city, so they are renting in Hyde Park and they rented their house to a family that received Section 8 vouchers.

The neighborhood is not flooded with Section 8 people. There are some in that town, and in other places, scattered throughout the city. As I see it, this family will benefit from having a nice home, backyard for their kids, better schools, and a safe environment.

Why can't that happen here?
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Old 04-21-2012, 09:14 PM
 
Location: Bed-stuy/Clinton Hill
952 posts, read 1,381,524 times
Reputation: 471
Quote:
Originally Posted by queensgrl View Post
No. If they're not moved "en masse" creating new "ghettos" it doesn't happen. Using the Chicago example, my friends own a house in one of the south suburbs and they wanted to move back to the city, so they are renting in Hyde Park and they rented their house to a family that received Section 8 vouchers.

The neighborhood is not flooded with Section 8 people. There are some in that town, and in other places, scattered throughout the city. As I see it, this family will benefit from having a nice home, backyard for their kids, better schools, and a safe environment.

Why can't that happen here?
Thank you, its a simple concept people cannot seem to grasp.
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Old 04-22-2012, 06:49 AM
 
Location: NYC
2,172 posts, read 2,758,810 times
Reputation: 987
Slightly OT, but I think the current PJ buildings could be revitalized for seniors on fixed incomes. I have started thinking about where I want to live post-retirement and it makes sense to be here - best doctors, cultural activities, public transportation. The PJ buildings could be great places to age-in-place, offering services and activities on site. That's of course if the people who disrespect property and neighbors are driven out. If rules are setup that evict you for infractions, I could see the quality of life issues turning around.
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Old 04-22-2012, 07:52 AM
 
2,491 posts, read 1,751,597 times
Reputation: 1698
Quote:
Originally Posted by queensgrl View Post
Slightly OT, but I think the current PJ buildings could be revitalized for seniors on fixed incomes. I have started thinking about where I want to live post-retirement and it makes sense to be here - best doctors, cultural activities, public transportation. The PJ buildings could be great places to age-in-place, offering services and activities on site. That's of course if the people who disrespect property and neighbors are driven out. If rules are setup that evict you for infractions, I could see the quality of life issues turning around.
That's highly unlikely as NY housing laws are very tenant friendly. Infractions will be treated with a slap on the hand if that. Personally I'm in favor of stricter laws allowing landlords more rights to evict a tenant for breaking any rule on the lease and also allowing the landlord the right to not renew the tenant's lease if he doesn't want to.
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Old 04-22-2012, 11:56 AM
 
Location: West Harlem
3,872 posts, read 2,669,128 times
Reputation: 1664
Quote:
Originally Posted by twist07 View Post
Can you guys give some examples of when a whole neighborhood was brought down by just a few people moving in?
Yes. So-called "Nolita."
I was an eyewitness.
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Old 04-22-2012, 12:30 PM
 
776 posts, read 1,026,478 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by twist07 View Post
Undo the concentration of poverty so that lower-income people can be able to live in areas with good access to education, healthy food and health care. ...

People in some low income areas already have great access to education, healthy food and health care even with concentration of poverty.

Letís take a look at Lower East Side 10002, the area between Manhattan and Williamsburg bridge. It is one of NYC classic poor neighborhood with housing projects in nearly every block.

Health Care -- Every poor has Medicaid. Gouverneur hospital has been serving the community for 100+ years.

Healthy Food -- A Pathmark has been there for at least 30 years. With close proximity to Chinatown, abundant supply of fresh produce are available at the lowest price in Manhattan. Food stamps are always welcome. It is NOT a food desert.

Education -- PS 184 is one cityís of the best public school, completely surrounded by NYCHA projects. PS 184 Shuang Wen is ranking #11 among all NYC's elementary schools based on 2011 NY State ELA & Math Tests. According to DOE data, Ethnicity %: 9 W | 4 B | 5 H | 81 A. 81% Asian is understandable, possibly all Chinese. 9% White is the same as Black and Hispanic combined. I donít think those Whites are living in the projects. Here is a quote from insideschool.org review,
Quote:
PS 184 is directly across the street from a public housing complex where the majority of residents are African-American. "A lot of people just assumed it was a private school," said one community leader, "because they saw limousines dropping kids off and mostly Asian kids going in."
Does this sound surprise? If any poor family has a super gifted kid that belongs the top 1%, Nest+M is right there in District 1 for their convenience. It is the #1 ranking public school serving K to 12. Source, All NYC NYC's top public elementary schools based on 2011 NY State ELA & Math Tests

If the people here cannot make it, those in Brownsville or ENY probably never will.
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Old 04-22-2012, 12:36 PM
 
Location: Confines of the 101 Precinct
10,269 posts, read 18,484,876 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bill83 View Post
People in some low income areas already have great access to education, healthy food and health care even with concentration of poverty.

Letís take a look at Lower East Side 10002, the area between Manhattan and Williamsburg bridge. It is one of NYC classic poor neighborhood with housing projects in nearly every block.

Health Care -- Every poor has Medicaid. Gouverneur hospital has been serving the community for 100+ years.

Healthy Food -- A Pathmark has been there for at least 30 years. With close proximity to Chinatown, abundant supply of fresh produce are available at the lowest price in Manhattan. Food stamps are always welcome. It is NOT a food desert.

Education -- PS 184 is one cityís of the best public school, completely surrounded by NYCHA projects. PS 184 Shuang Wen is ranking #11 among all NYC's elementary schools based on 2011 NY State ELA & Math Tests. According to DOE data, Ethnicity %: 9 W | 4 B | 5 H | 81 A. 81% Asian is understandable, possibly all Chinese. 9% White is the same as Black and Hispanic combined. I donít think those Whites are living in the projects. Here is a quote from insideschool.org review,
Does this sound surprise? If any poor family has a super gifted kid that belongs the top 1%, Nest+M is right there in District 1 for their convenience. It is the #1 ranking public school serving K to 12. Source, All NYC NYC's top public elementary schools based on 2011 NY State ELA & Math Tests

If the people here cannot make it, those in Brownsville or ENY probably never will.
Now the challenge - if you accept it - is to find a neighborhood like this in the outer boroughs. Manhattan really isn't a great example because it is so condensed, situations like the one you present have a much greater chance of occurring.
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Old 04-22-2012, 02:39 PM
 
6,431 posts, read 5,152,721 times
Reputation: 5384
Quote:
Originally Posted by queensgrl View Post
The neighborhood is not flooded with Section 8 people. There are some in that town, and in other places, scattered throughout the city. As I see it, this family will benefit from having a nice home, backyard for their kids, better schools, and a safe environment.

Why can't that happen here?
If the only difference between the rich and the poor was that the rich have more money, it would work fine. Unfortunately, a large percentage of the poor are the people who create the unsafe environment. They also trash the nice home and backyard, and bring down the quality of the schools.
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Old 04-22-2012, 03:28 PM
 
2,491 posts, read 1,751,597 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nybbler View Post
If the only difference between the rich and the poor was that the rich have more money, it would work fine. Unfortunately, a large percentage of the poor are the people who create the unsafe environment. They also trash the nice home and backyard, and bring down the quality of the schools.
Its the poor people from the other side of the tracks that move in to the nicer part of town and begin ruining it. That's a sure way to ruin a good neighborhood. If you allow one to move in, more will follow. Its like if you have one roach, your guaranteed to get more. I would be pissed off if some ghetto family moved in next to me.
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Old 04-22-2012, 03:51 PM
 
Location: Kenmore, WA
6,873 posts, read 3,506,221 times
Reputation: 9554
Quote:
Originally Posted by queensgrl View Post
On another thread we strayed off topic about how neighborhoods with high concentrations of poverty ate associated with crime, "ghetto" behavior, wayward kids, filth, etc. However, this was not always the case. One poster mentioned that walking through the projects, you'd see men in suits going to work, supervised kids who were disciplined, who went to some of the best high schools in the city.

So, what happened? Once the "cream" of these neighborhoods did well and moved on, only the most disinfranched remain?

Just curious on some theories you may have.
Not everyone can cut through the barriers. We're not all made of the same stuff. There used to be a place in America for unskilled labor, but with all the job competition for even the most paltry positions -- heck, we fight over yard work! -- it's tough for those less capable.

From what I've seen of the depressed neighborhoods that fit your description, the people left there were handicapped on multiple levels: single parent families with lack of supervision in the homes, parents too overworked to be able to attend to the issues that come up, out of work people with no access to even qualify for work. Those issues would debilitate many of us, if we were ever forced into that position.

I think we need major social reforms in this country, but I don't see it happening until we stop blaming the poor and telling them what their problems are, and start working with them to solve the problems they describe.
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