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Old 04-23-2012, 07:07 AM
 
267 posts, read 891,154 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ny789987 View Post
I live in Chinatown on a street that borders the projects. Although the people that live in each area are equally poor, the clash between the two couldn't be more different. In Chinatown, most people are off the streets by 10pm. In the hood, you see large groups of people milling about late at night. In Chinatown, you often see young kids with backpacks being led to school by their mothers in the morning. In the hood, you don't see the mothers (and when you do you should hear some of the potty mouthed profanities coming out of their mouths). In Chinatown, people collect welfare and work off the books. In the hood, people collect welfare, but do not work. In Ctown, most kids in the 2nd generation are speaking proper English and living middle class lifestyles outside the neighborhood. In the hood, the kids are just as bad off as their elders.
Good observation.

One more thing, unwed single moms are common in the hood. Unwed Chinese moms are hard to find. It is near imposible to find a single Chinese mom with multiple kids from different men.

Last edited by Sarah2k9; 04-23-2012 at 07:16 AM..
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Old 04-23-2012, 07:15 AM
 
267 posts, read 891,154 times
Reputation: 136
Quote:
Originally Posted by queensgrl View Post
So, we have a number of thoughts on why this situation is what it is.
Do you have any thoughts on how they can improve?
Find a way to turn ghetto mom into tiger mom. It is easy to say than done.
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Old 04-23-2012, 10:01 AM
 
Location: NYC
2,296 posts, read 4,531,389 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sarah2k9 View Post
Good observation.

One more thing, unwed single moms are common in the hood. Unwed Chinese moms are hard to find. It is near imposible to find a single Chinese mom with multiple kids from different men.
I don't want to drift into this discusssion because it will take us off topic but I work with women and men in the 'hood of Bed Stuy & South Bronx. There are lots of deeply imbedded mindsets that keeps men from education and gainful employment. However, they have swagger and attract women. The women are lonely and they get together with these men. People have sex and don't prevent pregnancy. The cycle continues. The mindset has to be broken before anything will change.

If you're interested in learning more, check out this video

Reaching Black Boys Symposium - YouTube

I'll leave it at this so we don't stray off topic.
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Old 04-23-2012, 10:06 AM
 
Location: NYC
2,296 posts, read 4,531,389 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SeventhFloor View Post
Some reading material if you're interested:

New York City Housing Development Corporation (NYCHDC)
This can't be all of the 80/20 available in the city. But if it is, no wonder middle income housing is so scarce.

Is that all there is????
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Old 04-23-2012, 01:17 PM
 
6,964 posts, read 5,486,152 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Harlem resident View Post
Problem is, this has been done in the TIL (tenant interim leases) buildings.

Let me describe just one such building nearby. Experience has taught me that the below scenario is typical in these properties.

As is well known in the area, at least three of the residents are openly involved in drug sales - conveniently enough, because many of the residents use them. That and "lotto" are major occupations. Two of the residents are involved in basement pit bull breeding. One resident is wanted for drug dealing and for beating his child, a problem he resolved by hiding in his mother's first floor apartment - where aforementioned child is often present. When authorities look for this guy, they check the third floor place where his (former ? who knows) wife and FIVE children (under the age of ten) reside. He is not there, of course, instead hiding out some floors below.

This person has never been employed, and there, he is exemplary of the majority of residents in this building, and the one across the street, and the one next door ...

These are the facts, everyone. I could not help but wonder, recently, why these buildings are not used for working people of modest income instead of for the benefit of the generational welfare types who happened to be in residence when the city took the building from the former owner. This is usually due to tax default.

These are the people who the system likes so they arent the ones who are pushed out of gentrifying neighborhoods. Its the HARDWORKING lower middle and low income WORKERS whose instinct is to attempt to support themselves through THEIR earnings and not to make their occupation to be figuring out how to squeeze as much out of the govt while having underground sources of income.
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Old 04-23-2012, 02:06 PM
 
2,503 posts, read 3,537,891 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by queensgrl View Post
This can't be all of the 80/20 available in the city. But if it is, no wonder middle income housing is so scarce.

Is that all there is????

If you read the requirements and see all the restrictions and strings attached to this type of development, it makes sense that there aren't many developments like these around. It's not very enticing from a business standpoint to have all those strict restrictions on YOUR property. Defeats the purpose of ownership.

Doing business with the City or Government is like doing business with the devil. All the bureaucratic paperwork, red tape and nonsense one must go through to satisfy the City's needs in my opinion is not worth it. For that I'd take my business elsewhere and the city loses out.
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Old 04-23-2012, 04:39 PM
 
Location: West Harlem
6,886 posts, read 7,876,630 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by caribny View Post
These are the people who the system likes so they arent the ones who are pushed out of gentrifying neighborhoods. Its the HARDWORKING lower middle and low income WORKERS whose instinct is to attempt to support themselves through THEIR earnings and not to make their occupation to be figuring out how to squeeze as much out of the govt while having underground sources of income.
Completely wrong. The city has taken one similar and nearby building back and they will take this one as well. The process is started.

They did their fellow tenants, many working-class people, in. They are all losing because of the ghetto few.

And, much as I like some of them, the HARDWORKING people you mention allowed this to happen. Why ? "No snitchin'."
In no way were they victimized by the city.
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Old 04-23-2012, 04:42 PM
 
Location: West Harlem
6,886 posts, read 7,876,630 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hilltopjay View Post
If you read the requirements and see all the restrictions and strings attached to this type of development, it makes sense that there aren't many developments like these around. It's not very enticing from a business standpoint to have all those strict restrictions on YOUR property. Defeats the purpose of ownership.

Doing business with the City or Government is like doing business with the devil. All the bureaucratic paperwork, red tape and nonsense one must go through to satisfy the City's needs in my opinion is not worth it. For that I'd take my business elsewhere and the city loses out.
Do more research, everyone, and find out the whole picture. There are many, many landlords receiving enormous tax breaks, in fact, paying no property taxes whatsoever for buildings they also purchased for a song.

Those are the facts. The actual picture is far more complicated.
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Old 04-23-2012, 04:56 PM
 
Location: Portland, Oregon
46,054 posts, read 28,429,938 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Harlem resident View Post
Completely wrong. The city has taken one similar and nearby building back and they will take this one as well. The process is started.

They did their fellow tenants, many working-class people, in. They are all losing because of the ghetto few.

And, much as I like some of them, the HARDWORKING people you mention allowed this to happen. Why ? "No snitchin'."
In no way were they victimized by the city.
It is so much easier to blame the poor with these things than it is to do actual work to correct the problems that are at hand. If the people that live in these neighborhoods aren't "snitchin" then there is a reason for that. My guess is that they feel like the city won't do anything and then that will make them a target in their own neighborhood....not sure I know anyone who would want to be put in that situation. But if the city worked closer with the people and made it so that they see immediate effects, then it would be much easier to work with people who then feel like things are getting done and improving where they live.....but that requires hard work that cannot be placed solely on the backs of the poor.
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Old 04-23-2012, 08:07 PM
 
Location: NYC
2,296 posts, read 4,531,389 times
Reputation: 1082
Quote:
Originally Posted by hilltopjay View Post
If you read the requirements and see all the restrictions and strings attached to this type of development, it makes sense that there aren't many developments like these around. It's not very enticing from a business standpoint to have all those strict restrictions on YOUR property. Defeats the purpose of ownership.

Doing business with the City or Government is like doing business with the devil. All the bureaucratic paperwork, red tape and nonsense one must go through to satisfy the City's needs in my opinion is not worth it. For that I'd take my business elsewhere and the city loses out.
I was reading the income requirements and it's kinda tricky to understand because there are income limits based on household size but then there are different tiers where higher income is allowed. Can't tell if the low and high end get space in the same properties.

The other thing is that I thought all new constructions had to set aside 20% for "middle income" and it would be available through application (for example, Hunters Point South in LIC is one place I'm aware of). But this list has just a handful of properties. Where does everything else get posted? Maybe it's privately held and you have to apply directly to the developer?
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