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Old 04-19-2012, 04:33 PM
 
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I live in Chinatown on a street that borders the projects. Although the people that live in each area are equally poor, the clash between the two couldn't be more different. In Chinatown, most people are off the streets by 10pm. In the hood, you see large groups of people milling about late at night. In Chinatown, you often see young kids with backpacks being led to school by their mothers in the morning. In the hood, you don't see the mothers (and when you do you should hear some of the potty mouthed profanities coming out of their mouths). In Chinatown, people collect welfare and work off the books. In the hood, people collect welfare, but do not work. In Ctown, most kids in the 2nd generation are speaking proper English and living middle class lifestyles outside the neighborhood. In the hood, the kids are just as bad off as their elders.
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Old 04-19-2012, 06:42 PM
 
Location: West Harlem
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ny789987 View Post
I live in Chinatown on a street that borders the projects. Although the people that live in each area are equally poor, the clash between the two couldn't be more different. In Chinatown, most people are off the streets by 10pm. In the hood, you see large groups of people milling about late at night. In Chinatown, you often see young kids with backpacks being led to school by their mothers in the morning. In the hood, you don't see the mothers (and when you do you should hear some of the potty mouthed profanities coming out of their mouths). In Chinatown, people collect welfare and work off the books. In the hood, people collect welfare, but do not work. In Ctown, most kids in the 2nd generation are speaking proper English and living middle class lifestyles outside the neighborhood. In the hood, the kids are just as bad off as their elders.
I have also observed that, living most of my life (before here) in that general area.
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Old 04-19-2012, 06:47 PM
 
Location: Confines of the 101 Precinct
19,183 posts, read 32,707,062 times
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Originally Posted by queensgrl View Post
So, we have a number of thoughts on why this situation is what it is.
Do you have any thoughts on how they can improve?
It will never improve because there is no longer a way for somebody with just a high school education to earn a living for his/her family without higher education, and that is a business in it itself, which often proves to be cost prohibitive. Add to the influx of lemmings who fall off the cliff every year, thinking that a degree 100% guarantees you a job, and there you have it.

That's the main issue, because crack is no longer as big a problem in the city as it was, all you see are people who are doomed to repeat their history. No big kingpins like Fat Cat or Alpo anymore.

However if you want to start stabilizing the higher crime neighborhoods, you have to start stabilizing NYCHA. Start offering municipal workers ownership if they move in at great prices. So basically the city will make some its money back that they pay them to perform their civil services. And split each building 50% own, 50% rental. Preference to civil servants. NYCHA is severely mismanaged.
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Old 04-19-2012, 06:52 PM
 
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Originally Posted by SeventhFloor View Post
It will never improve because there is no longer a way for somebody with just a high school education to earn a living for his/her family without higher education, and that is a business in it itself, which often proves to be cost prohibitive.
NYC or USA in general?
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Old 04-19-2012, 07:00 PM
 
Location: Beautiful Pelham Parkway,The Bronx
8,389 posts, read 19,636,575 times
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Originally Posted by SeventhFloor View Post
However if you want to start stabilizing the higher crime neighborhoods, you have to start stabilizing NYCHA. Start offering municipal workers ownership if they move in at great prices. So basically the city will make some its money back that they pay them to perform their civil services. And split each building 50% own, 50% rental. Preference to civil servants. NYCHA is severely mismanaged.
I agree with this completely,especially since such an overwhelming percentage of the crime occurs in and around NYCHA projects.In fact,it may be the only realistic way of effecting real change.And it wouldn't cost much in the scheme of things.
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Old 04-19-2012, 07:11 PM
 
Location: Confines of the 101 Precinct
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Originally Posted by dood912 View Post
nyc or usa in general?
nyc.
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Old 04-19-2012, 07:23 PM
 
2,503 posts, read 3,522,162 times
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Originally Posted by ny789987 View Post
I live in Chinatown on a street that borders the projects. Although the people that live in each area are equally poor, the clash between the two couldn't be more different. In Chinatown, most people are off the streets by 10pm. In the hood, you see large groups of people milling about late at night. In Chinatown, you often see young kids with backpacks being led to school by their mothers in the morning. In the hood, you don't see the mothers (and when you do you should hear some of the potty mouthed profanities coming out of their mouths). In Chinatown, people collect welfare and work off the books. In the hood, people collect welfare, but do not work. In Ctown, most kids in the 2nd generation are speaking proper English and living middle class lifestyles outside the neighborhood. In the hood, the kids are just as bad off as their elders.
That's ghetto culture for you. That's why I say its beyond being poor. Being poor is not the culprit, the ghetto street culture is the culprit.
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Old 04-19-2012, 07:25 PM
 
Location: Confines of the 101 Precinct
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Originally Posted by hilltopjay View Post
That's ghetto culture for you. That's why I say its beyond being poor. Being poor is not the culprit, the ghetto street culture is the culprit.
That's only indicative to major urban cities, where the exposure to upward mobility is literally thrown in one's face. "Ghetto street" culture is not prevalent in rural low income high crime areas. Many Indian reservations have higher rape and alcoholism issues than any neighborhood in the Bronx.
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Old 04-19-2012, 09:40 PM
 
108 posts, read 140,358 times
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Originally Posted by queensgrl View Post
On another thread we strayed off topic about how neighborhoods with high concentrations of poverty ate associated with crime, "ghetto" behavior, wayward kids, filth, etc. However, this was not always the case. One poster mentioned that walking through the projects, you'd see men in suits going to work, supervised kids who were disciplined, who went to some of the best high schools in the city.

So, what happened? Once the "cream" of these neighborhoods did well and moved on, only the most disinfranched remain?

Just curious on some theories you may have.

As for causes of entrenched poverty, I blame Robert Moses and urban renewal.

Tearing down literally miles of old buildings (taken by the city by eminent domain) and replacing them with drab, depressing tower after tower stuffed with people who only live there because they can't afford to live elsewhere - that is a recipe for permanent poverty and spiraling morale.

In the pre-WWII LES many different people lived on a street (perhaps not rich, but certainly poor and middle class, immigrant and several-generation native, blacks, latinos, jews and Christians). And of course, they had an architecturally-rich environment, streets crowded with vendors, shops, theaters below, families above. I'm not saying it was Lake Woebegone, but people remember it fondly and it produced generations of talented writers, artists, mathematicians, business people.

The visual poverty of urban renewal is matched only by the economic poverty.

A stupid, stupid, utopian impulse that failed miserably.
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Old 04-19-2012, 09:55 PM
 
Location: NYC
2,296 posts, read 4,514,712 times
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Sounds from NYC pre-crack era.

A Beautiful Morning - 1968

The Rascals - A Beautiful Morning - YouTube

Suavecito - 1972

Suavecito - Malo (w/ Lyrics) - YouTube
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