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Old 04-20-2012, 07:39 AM
 
24 posts, read 91,465 times
Reputation: 17

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I'm looking at renting an apartment and from what I gather, it's a rent stabilized apartment (shows up in the list on the housingnyc). I would expect the broker would have mentioned this as that's usually a good selling point.

Being that this was not part of their sales pitch, as well as providing me a reason that the previous tenants lease was not renewed by the landlord (that's not allowed in rent stabilized apts), things sound a little fishy. I have not yet signed the lease, so i'm not sure if A) they will provide the stabilized rider, or B) they are illegally raising the rent.

My main issue is with the laws and housing dept:

So, I attempted to check if this building was in fact rent stabilized, and according to this page, NYC Rent Guidelines Board

Should my landlord inform me that my unit is stabilized?

First, note that although a BUILDING may be listed on our site as containing rent stabilized units, not all units in the building are necessarily stabilized. You should call the NY State Division of Housing and Community Renewal (DHCR), the state agency which administers the rent laws, to make sure your apartment is stabilized (718-739-6400 or 212-961-8930). [/SIZE]
[LEFT][SIZE=1]If your apartment is indeed stabilized, your landlord is supposed to attach to your lease the Rent Stabilization "Lease Rider." The rider informs you of your rights and responsibilities as a rent stabilized tenant, and includes the prior rent for the apartment, as well as the reasons the rent was increased. You can call the DHCR and file a complaint if your landlord did not provide the Rider. While the DHCR will not reduce your rent if the Rider was not attached to your lease, it will require your landlord to provide a copy of the Rider to you. For more information, see the fact sheet on the Rider."


So I contacted that phone number and was told it's not public information if the building is stabilized. Hmm, was the phone rep correct with this statement? She was extremely rude and hung up on me as I continued to ask questions.


But the way she explained it, I must first sign the lease, and then file a complaint. However, according to the FAQ above, if I sign the lease at the higher than legal rent, and then file a complaint, my rent will not be reduced.



What's the point of providing a phone number to double check the accuracy of the online list (http://www.housingnyc.com/downloads/resources/sta_bldngs/2010ManhattanBldgs.pdf)? I'm baffled by this.



Ultimately, if the landlord is illegally increasing rent, the broker will make up an additional lie how the apartment is not rent stabilized. Without the help of the housingnyc.com site, I can't confirm if this is true until after I sign the lease.


My assumption is 1) the broker lied about the previous tenants lease not being renewed by the landlord, i don't know why. 2) the housingnyc phone rep is an idiot and should have told me if this unit was no longer rent stabilized, but didn't feel like doing any work today.

[/LEFT]

Last edited by Zamees; 04-20-2012 at 09:08 AM..
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Old 04-20-2012, 07:48 AM
 
Location: USA
8,016 posts, read 9,062,796 times
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call a lawyer about it i guess.
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Old 04-20-2012, 08:30 AM
 
197 posts, read 387,738 times
Reputation: 163
What is the rent?
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Old 04-20-2012, 09:07 AM
 
24 posts, read 91,465 times
Reputation: 17
listed as $2000, submitted to landlord for a little less. Doubt the unit was deregulated with the previous tenant, although I suppose that was possible.
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Old 04-20-2012, 11:31 AM
 
Location: Manhattan
20,129 posts, read 26,407,309 times
Reputation: 9021
Do not MENTION the subject to landlord, agent, superintendant or even handyman.

If you like the apartment, sign the lease and wait a bit of time and THEN file with the City to determine the proper stabilized rent. This presumes you are paying less than $2,000: over $2,000 and it may or may not have destabilized. Right AT $2000 it gets hairy becasue then the landlord has to prove the amount was achieved legally and with proper reporting (like capital improvements, vacancy allowances, etc.)

If you are paying $1800 and the PROPER rent is $900 (not uncommon) you will eventually get the difference back to when you moved in. It can take a LONG time but you will prevail. Anyone who told you differently is lying anyone saying that signing a lease for a creiminally high rent is acceptance of that rent is lying. Some sources say that DHCR is in the landlord's pocket and you may do better to seek other venues to bring a crooked landlord to heel.

But IF you notify the landlord that you even KNOW what rent stabilization IS, he may run away like a scorched cat and look for another mouse.

And know well, you will NOT benefit from rent stabilization until you have a signed lease in your pocket.



But make sure that you like the apartment at the offered rent...any future reduction should be looked on as a happy windfall. If you DO like the place at the offered rent, get that signed lease in your hot little hands before you utter a peep about stabilization...in fact wait a few MONTHS before filing to determine the proper rent.

No, the landlord does not have to disclose the proper stabilized rent; he must only CHARGE the proper rent. The law insists upon the latter.

Last edited by Kefir King; 04-20-2012 at 11:59 AM..
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Old 04-20-2012, 11:38 AM
 
24 posts, read 91,465 times
Reputation: 17
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kefir King View Post
NO NO NO NO NO. Do not MENTION the subject to landlord, agent, superintendant or even handyman.

If you like the apartment, sign the lease and wait a bit of time and THEN file with the City to determine the proper stabilized rent. (This presumes you are paying less than $2,000: over $2,000 and it may or may not have destabilized.)

If you are paying $1800 and the PROPER rent is $900 (not uncommon) you will eventually get the difference back to when you moved in. It can take a LONG time but you will prevail. Anyone who told you differently is lying.

But IF you notify the landlord that you even KNOW what rent stabilization IS, he may run away like a scorched cat and look for another mouse.



But make sure that you like the apartment at the offered rent...any future reduction should be looked on as a happy windfall. If you DO like the place at the offered rent, get that signed lease in your hot little hands before you utter a peep about stabilization...in fact wait MONTHS.

No, the landlord does not have to disclose the proper stabilized rent; he must only CHARGE the proper rent. The law insists upon it.

Well this post all seemed like a great plan until you said that the landlord does not have to disclose the proper rent. They also changed the law from $2000 to now be $2500 to deregulate, as of june 2011.

NYC Rent Guidelines Board

By law, an owner must include a copy of the Rent Stabilization Rider with a tenant's vacancy and renewal lease. The Rider describes the rights and obligations of tenants and owners under the Rent Stabilization Law. The Rider is only informational; its provisions do not modify or become part of the lease. Nor does it replace or modify the Rent Stabilization Law or Code, or any order from the Division of Housing and Community Renewal (DHCR) or the New York City Rent Guidelines Board.

The Rider informs a rent stabilized tenant signing a vacancy lease of the legal regulated rent in effect immediately prior to the vacancy, and explains how the present rent was computed.


I'm probabaly signing the lease tonight or tomorrow, and I was going to ask about the stabilization of the building, but now you've got me thinking I shouldn't mention it.
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Old 04-20-2012, 12:11 PM
 
Location: Manhattan
20,129 posts, read 26,407,309 times
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Yes, I keep thinking the $2000 is in effect since when I was a renter it was the number for me to consider...I guess it's $2500 now. My bad.

Okay, you say the landlord needs to file a notification rider but IF a landlord wants to charge an illegal rent (VERY COMMON) he will not include a rider. So that is the difference between a landlord ignoring the rider law and charging an illegal rent? As the song goes "You can't have one without the other."

A landlord who wants a tenant to pay MORE than he is allowed to charge will avoid the rider...he MUST. Should one assume that NOT getting a rider from a crooked landlord voids rent stabilization? Of course not.

But trust me, if you challenge the landlord about rent stabilization regulations before you sign the lease you will NOT get the apartment. Probably the mere mention is fatal to the transaction.

Good luck with the lease signing...and after it's done we'll talk.

It used to be that DHCR would get the job done for tenants with a simple one page filing, but now the road is more landlord friendly. Landlords have been battling destabilization for years and money is finding its way into regulators' pockets and Albany is up for sale to the highest bidder.
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Old 04-20-2012, 12:15 PM
 
24 posts, read 91,465 times
Reputation: 17
so it sounds like i should be hoping for no rider. how come you suggest waiting a few months before fili g the complaint?
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Old 04-20-2012, 12:42 PM
 
Location: Manhattan
20,129 posts, read 26,407,309 times
Reputation: 9021
Just a gut feeling, sort of "to establish residency."

Let a couple people get to know you so that the landlord will be less inclined to thrown your body into the Hudson when you confront him. <a joke...sort of.>


I almost did the same thing with an apartment on West 30th years back...I just KNEW it was stabilized at a lower rent. But when push came to shove, I realized I really didn't want to live there, roaches and noise and a couple homeless hang outs around. That's before it became chic and North Chelsea!
No regrets though...things worked out well.
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Old 04-20-2012, 04:21 PM
 
Location: West Harlem
6,886 posts, read 7,822,965 times
Reputation: 3000
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kefir King View Post
Do not MENTION the subject to landlord, agent, superintendant or even handyman.

If you like the apartment, sign the lease and wait a bit of time and THEN file with the City to determine the proper stabilized rent. This presumes you are paying less than $2,000: over $2,000 and it may or may not have destabilized. Right AT $2000 it gets hairy becasue then the landlord has to prove the amount was achieved legally and with proper reporting (like capital improvements, vacancy allowances, etc.)

If you are paying $1800 and the PROPER rent is $900 (not uncommon) you will eventually get the difference back to when you moved in. It can take a LONG time but you will prevail. Anyone who told you differently is lying anyone saying that signing a lease for a creiminally high rent is acceptance of that rent is lying. Some sources say that DHCR is in the landlord's pocket and you may do better to seek other venues to bring a crooked landlord to heel.

But IF you notify the landlord that you even KNOW what rent stabilization IS, he may run away like a scorched cat and look for another mouse.

And know well, you will NOT benefit from rent stabilization until you have a signed lease in your pocket.



But make sure that you like the apartment at the offered rent...any future reduction should be looked on as a happy windfall. If you DO like the place at the offered rent, get that signed lease in your hot little hands before you utter a peep about stabilization...in fact wait a few MONTHS before filing to determine the proper rent.

No, the landlord does not have to disclose the proper stabilized rent; he must only CHARGE the proper rent. The law insists upon the latter.
Excellent advice. You do not need more discussion about it.

It is only the job of DHCR to inform you of the legal rent, once you posses the apartment, and once you file an inquiry.
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