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It is not just "another few minutes" on the notoriously backed up 4 n 5 "cattle car" trains to downtown financial district, more like 30 minutes if you get jammed in the tunnel with the famous "attention ladies and gentlemen, sorry for the delay, we have train traffic up ahead of us" from NYC Transit. Then you have to account for the time travel from office to train station.
Oh please! When did summer internships in college, I would take the 7:58 train which is always on time and get into work, down by the World Trade Center, by 9AM (ok, more like 9:05 or 9:10 but whatever, LOL). Also, you're going to have these subway issues when commuting anywhere within NYC- and most people *do* commute within NYC to their jobs. I know very few people that can walk to work. Also, you're not taking into account the major benefits of living in the suburbs (space, schools, less congestion, etc), especially one like Scarsdale, and why so many people choose to commute in from these places.
It is not just "another few minutes" on the notoriously backed up 4 n 5 "cattle car" trains to downtown financial district, more like 30 minutes if you get jammed in the tunnel with the famous "attention ladies and gentlemen, sorry for the delay, we have train traffic up ahead of us" from NYC Transit. Then you have to account for the time travel from office to train station.
Ugh, yes, I used to do the Westchester to downtown commute. It's a giant pain in the butt. Jersey has much better access to downtown, as you can grab the PATH.
Ugh, yes, I used to do the Westchester to downtown commute. It's a giant pain in the butt. Jersey has much better access to downtown, as you can grab the PATH.
Having several of the top rated [public] schools in the entire country is probably a fair trade off. At the end of the day, if you are moving with a family, there are other factors that must be considered in addition to the 4 and 5 train... That being said, I don't know a thing about the NJ schools and have a clear bias towards Westchester's public education system.
Of course, this is only if you choose the suburbs over NYC...
First, make sure your estimates of income are accurate. Have you taken into account NY city tax,etc? From your rental budget, I assume you have a high HHI, so this will be significant. Make sure your husband is being paid enough to maintain a similar lifestyle.
If you're going to live in the city (meaning in this context, any of the 5 boroughs) yes, a townhouse and yardspace is mostly a fantasty. You might be able to get a nice apartment in a Brooklyn brownstone (a 4-5 story "townhouse) where you get a floor or two, and possibly will have the garden to yourself. But there will be people above you, and 6K is probably not enough for the most prime versions of that. Private schools are in the range of 40K, but the public elementaries in schmancy brooklyn (Cobble Hill, Park Slope, Brooklyn Heights) are quite good by NY standards. By the time you need to worry about middle school, you can have a better idea of where to live permanently.
The commute is best from Brooklyn (1 stop to FiDi from Brooklyn Heights) or from some place in more or less downtown (Yes, Chelsea, or the village or Tribeca). But those Manhattan options are very expensive. A slightly longer commute will put you in the Upper West or East sides, which are, to me, like the Brooklyn neighborhoods I mentioned above.
Are you selling your cars? If not, parking is another major expense.
Quote:
Originally Posted by maulamar12
Hi,
My husband was just offered a job opportunity with a company in NYC and we obviously need to move. We are from MI and we live in your typical neighborhood of homes with 3000+ sq. ft, yard, kids riding on bikes on the sidewalk, bbq's, etc. (you get the picture). We have never lived in a big city before. We are excited about moving but I am overwhelmed on where to start.
For sake of discussion, let's say that the amount we can spend is about 6K+/month.
We have a daughter who is 3.
He will be working in the Financial District. We want to keep commute time to as short as possible but are willing to sacrafice a longer commute for a better place to lvie.
Where should we start to look?
We have discussed New Jersey, as we are kind of hoping we can get a suburban feel but with quick access to the city for commuting purposes. However, I have read that quick access is not a reality and the schools aren't that great. We can go private but would like to live in an area where public schools are rated high. However, what parts of NJ would you recommend if we were trying to achieve that raise your kid in the suburbs kind of feel?
What about parts of the city? I am CLUELESS as to where I would even begin to consider but what about Brooklyn or Queens? Or what about Chelsea (is that in the city)? Can we get a townhouse in any of these places or are we strictly talking apartments? Yard space? Or is that just a dream?
As someone who commuted via 4/5 for a few years I am happy to say I don't have to do it anymore. Those trains are really hellish during peak hours. Non-stop "train traffic ahead of us" announcements.
Also, to the other poster from Michigan, you're right that it's a love it or hate it proposition. You're coming from a suburban mentality where yards and cars are a luxury. Many would argue that being able to walk everywhere is a wonderful advantage and one you pay handsomely for. Just look at all of the strollers being pushed around Park Slope. It's enough to make someone without kids insane and has become such a well known phenomenon that it's practically it's own parody. You also have one of the greatest public parks in the US (Prospect Park) within a short walk. Acres upon acres for children to play.
OP - It all comes down to what you want. If, like the other ex-Michiganer, you favor yards and driving then by all means go with Jersey. The town she mentions are VERY desirable. If you want walkability, world class parks, and seas of other young parents to casually bump into on the street I'd vote Battery Park City and Park Slope. It's all your own preference (I'm sure you can tell what direction I'm biased towards).
We are also from MI - Holland, MI. We moved and currently live in Park Slope this past Aug., which is considered one of the best family friendly neighborhoods in NYC, and honestly, I can't wait to move to NJ. This may be *more* of a suburb feel than others, but it's not at all. NO yards, you have to walk EVERYWHERE. Can you imagine that with a stroller, etc? The schools, and we're in PS321 (i.e. best public elementary school) have no grass. You have to apply to get your children into a middle school, which are hit and miss. . . .
Sometimes I think people sometimes downplay Brooklyn's urban experience too short. You're a prime example of thinking Park Slope was *less* urban when in fact it's quite the opposite.
Park Slope is one of the best neighborhoods in the city but for people who want an urban experience AND a nice family oriented neighborhood.
Thank you to everyone for the suggestions. This is very helpful and will definitely help us when we have to start making decisions.
I am sure you can tell that I have no clue what I am in for when moving to NYC but we are definitely willing to give it a try.
To answer some of the questions asked:
Yes, we plan on not having vehicles. There is no point (at least we don't see one) in keeping them if we live in the city.
Income is in the high six figures and we could spend more per month if need be but we are trying to keep it as low as we can possibly manage without sacraficing too much space and amenities as we dont know what to expect for day to day living expenses. All that I have read about schools is that public is terrible (don't know if that's true or not) and private is just ridiculously expensive. I can't seem to wrap my head around paying 30K/year for my 3 year old daughter to go to school but it is something that we have to consider.
These days there is really no need to stay uninformed. Google streetview is your friend. It may not tell you everything but at least you won't be blindsided by the fact there aren't any trees or lawns like you were used to.
You may want to reconsider keeping one vehicle as it is very handy to have your own transportation for your child, especially if you are planning to live in the suburbs. Depending upon where you look in NYC for now, you can keep one car in a garage, but I would recommend a sedan or small wagon as an SUV or van will incur high charges. Many people who live in Brooklyn have cars, even in Park Slope, that has its own parking condos, as well as many in Battery Park City and other areas of Manhattan. For a single, it's easier to live on one's own without a car, but with a family, a car is handy, even in Manhattan.
If you are open to NJ, remember that you can live in an area like Monmouth County and commute via SeaStreak boat to Manhattan. It's not an inexpensive mode of transportation, but your housing dollar would go further, and it would be a single mode of transportation, not train to subway, etc. Westchester can work, as well, but the commute gets old fast, and I know many people in Northeastern Westchester and Fairfield who choose to live where they live because they love their house, town, etc., and put up with the commute. To Midtown, it's an easy commute through Grand Central, but switching to the subway does add time.
On Scarsdale, there are few apartments in the town, itself. Those adjacent to the station are largely co-ops that are in Eastchester, on Garth Road, and while they have a Scarsdale zip code, the schools are not Scarsdale. An area that you might consider in Westchester that has a fast commute to Grand Central, and is not too arduous to Lower Manhattan would be Larchmont. Scarsdale's school system is widely known as being highly pressured on students, and there are many good school districts in Westchester, just as there are in NJ.
If you want a townhouse in the city, I would actually look more toward Riverdale. That may seem to be far from his office; however, the area has an express bus (coach bus), the BxM18 that goes to Lower Manhattan. It's not as quick as some other areas, but is a single-mode of transportation, like the SeaStreak from NJ, so that you don't have to deal with the subway, bus, etc. For Midtown, you can take Metro-North from Riverdale in less than 30 minutes, and there are express buses to the UES and UWS. There are some excellent private schools in Riverdale, such as Riverdale Country Day, Horace Mann, Ethical Culture, etc., but the public schools are also not bad, but no city school can come close to that of small suburban districts, outside of the city's specialized high schools that grant entrance by examination.
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All the world's a stage, and all the men and women merely players: they have their exits and their entrances; and one man in his time plays many parts, his acts being seven ages.
~William Shakespeare (As You Like It Act II, Scene VII)
If you are open to NJ, remember that you can live in an area like Monmouth County and commute via SeaStreak boat to Manhattan. It's not an inexpensive mode of transportation, but your housing dollar would go further, and it would be a single mode of transportation, not train to subway, etc.
Your husband will still have to get from home to the Seastreak dock. Either he drives to the large open parking lot, or you do drop-off & pick-up, to keep a single car. Traffic can be a pain in Highlands & Atlantic Highlands, due to hundreds of other commuters with the same idea as you. Seastreak Ferry New Jersey, New York and New Bedford, Martha's Vineyard Seastreak Ferry New Jersey, New York and New Bedford, Martha's Vineyard
You might want to PM with the other MI transplant, rather than take random advice here! With a 3-year-old, a year in the city followed by a move to the suburbs might be a decent plan!
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from NYC Transit. Then you have to account for the time travel from office to train station.
