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Old 04-25-2012, 05:41 PM
 
Location: New York
2,003 posts, read 4,384,976 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bg7 View Post
In very gerneral terms thats true, but it doesnt account for the bayside schools being so well-performing. Howard Beach has a significantly higher median income, its schools do not match District 26.
The best of Howard Beach (morally and financially) will send their children to Catholic schools. A public school will never match the education of a Catholic school which educates the entire person. The public school in Howard Beach is for the dregs of society.
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Old 04-25-2012, 07:49 PM
 
Location: Glendale NY
4,841 posts, read 8,201,556 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by samyn on the green View Post
The best of Howard Beach (morally and financially) will send their children to Catholic schools. A public school will never match the education of a Catholic school which educates the entire person. The public school in Howard Beach is for the dregs of society.
The elementary schools in Howard Beach aren't that bad. However, there's no middle schools there [public ones] and the local HS, John Adams, is awful. Most kids in Howard Beach are probably zoned for MS 202 in Ozone Park, which is just on the other side of the Conduit, and is also a terrible middle school to boot. [I went there]

I know a lot of kids in Howard Beach do go to Catholic schools. In the mornings if you ever take the Q53 or Q21, the buses are filled with white kids from Howard Beach or Belle Harbor going to St Francis Prep, Christ the King, or Molloy. I also knew a lot of girls from Howard Beach that went to Stella Maris in Rockaway Park [which I believe closed down a few years ago].
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Old 04-26-2012, 07:18 AM
bg7
 
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"A public school will never match the education of a Catholic school which educates the entire person."

Oh thats a good one!!
Whats the rest of your stand-up routine?
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Old 04-26-2012, 08:38 AM
 
1,119 posts, read 2,254,612 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gk90 View Post
That's School District 26, the highest scoring district in NYC. Of course the income correlation with test scores is significant--it's a district with lots of single-family homes and a suburban feel in much of the area. Comparing Harlem schools is like apples to oranges, or to use another metaphor, it's not a level playing field. The kids in District 26 are starting out with a big economic advantage. It may look like Harlem schools need to learn from 26 schools but there are huge socioeconomic issues involved here. Also the many Asian immigrant families come from comfortable, educated backgrounds in their home countries and really push their kids to excel.
Agree. Other schools can learn from district 26, but success is hard to copy. Board of Ed can move the entire faculty to Harlem, South Bronx or East New York, it is unlikely success stories will come with them.
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Old 04-26-2012, 07:45 PM
 
267 posts, read 910,307 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bg7 View Post
Virtually all schools in the city with large asian populations are very good schools.
Did Asian parents do a better job in searching for good schools or Asian students make schools better?

Last edited by Sarah2k9; 04-26-2012 at 08:08 PM..
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Old 04-26-2012, 09:54 PM
 
334 posts, read 953,455 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bg7 View Post
Virtually all schools in the city with large asian populations are very good schools.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sarah2k9 View Post
Did Asian parents do a better job in searching for good schools or Asian students make schools better?
These schools were good to begin with, even before the influx of Asians--District 26 was one of the top rated in NYC over 30 years ago. Of course there are many stellar Asian students but the issue is not just ethnicity, it's also socioeconomic background. Asian families don't automatically make schools better--just look at the schools around the Chinatowns in Manahttan and Flushing.

It's true that one reason that financially comfortable and savvy Asian families chose this neighborhood was the schools and also true that they've made a positive contribution to the neighborhood and school system.

Here are a couple of articles discussing the Asian "model minority" myth in education. The takeaway is that we're doing Asian students a real disservice by assuming that they're all smart, and we're also holding up a false model for success for other minorities.
http://www.education.com/reference/a...sian-students/
The Model Minority Myth (http://www.nais.org/publications/ismagazinearticle.cfm?ItemNumber=154576 - broken link)

Last edited by gk90; 04-26-2012 at 10:15 PM..
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Old 04-26-2012, 10:07 PM
 
Location: Glendale NY
4,841 posts, read 8,201,556 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gk90 View Post
These schools were good to begin with, even before the influx of Asians--District 26 was one of the top rated in NYC over 30 years ago. Of course there are many stellar Asian students but the issue is not just ethnicity, it's also socioeconomic background. Asian families don't automatically make schools better--just look at the schools around the Chinatowns in Manahttan and Flushing.
Also Newtown High School in Elmhurst is terrible.
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Old 04-27-2012, 05:24 AM
 
1,018 posts, read 1,256,304 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bg7 View Post
Virtually all schools in the city with large asian populations are very good schools.
This
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Old 04-27-2012, 09:51 AM
 
Location: NYC
2,296 posts, read 4,649,903 times
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Socioeconomic status is high. Families in higher income/education categories themselves want the same for their kids and will make sure that it happens. District 26 has been excellent for decades -- when Asians didn't live there. It's SES, not race/ethnicity that's the determining factor.
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Old 04-27-2012, 11:00 AM
bg7
 
7,698 posts, read 8,123,658 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by queensgrl View Post
Socioeconomic status is high. Families in higher income/education categories themselves want the same for their kids and will make sure that it happens. District 26 has been excellent for decades -- when Asians didn't live there. It's SES, not race/ethnicity that's the determining factor.

Its not race or ethnicity or SES. Its culture.
Look at the facts for asian immigrants, non-english speaking. You will find, despite rumors to the contrary on this board, that the average educational level of the parents is not significantly different from the population at large.

Look at Stuy - about 70% asian and 30% white, with a sprinkling of black and hispanic. 35% qualifying for free lunch.

Studies at Princeton also show no simple link between asian students' success and parental education or income.

Its no mystery though, its culture and family coherence and positive role models (even if they aren't educationally successful). Cultural changes are had to effect though, especially when facing headwinds of self-serving or entrenched ideas.
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