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Old 05-04-2012, 09:24 AM
 
Location: West Harlem
6,886 posts, read 7,832,775 times
Reputation: 3000

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Quote:
Originally Posted by caribny View Post
One million Caribbean people in NjJ/NY.. and yoiur thesis is based in three.

Check any source you wish and it will show you that Caribbean NYers are more successful than AAs, despite having all the disadvantages of being an immigrant and none of those that living in a counytry for several generations offers.
This was scarcely a thesis. It was an attempt to point out that even Caribbean utopias have problems.

And guess what ? Many Caribbean people ARE successful - due, precisely, to proper parenting. Not the absence of some sort of inevitable and all-powerful "force."

Discerning "racism" among a population who hangs out on the streets all day, wears its pants around its knees, cannot speak properly ... and so on, is just about impossible. It is a chicken-and-egg thing.
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Old 05-04-2012, 09:32 AM
 
Location: USA
8,016 posts, read 9,073,035 times
Reputation: 3383
^ and don't forget to mention that mostly only the
bourgois carribean people or refugees get to even
immigrate to the u.s., because they have worse
poverty in their nations than the 50 states, so
their people are not doing any better either.
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Old 05-04-2012, 04:02 PM
 
6,963 posts, read 5,446,964 times
Reputation: 3448
Quote:
Originally Posted by Harlem resident View Post
This was scarcely a thesis. It was an attempt to point out that even Caribbean utopias have problems.

And guess what ? Many Caribbean people ARE successful - due, precisely, to proper parenting. Not the absence of some sort of inevitable and all-powerful "force."

Discerning "racism" among a population who hangs out on the streets all day, wears its pants around its knees, cannot speak properly ... and so on, is just about impossible. It is a chicken-and-egg thing.

Now about parenting. Various studies have shown the growth of out of wedlock births among the AAs since the 1960s. In the English speaking Caribbean female headed households have been the norm since the end of slavery. Men "breeding" women in every place they lived or visited was the norm...many of them boasting about having scores of kids....an indicator of their "manhood". Women having households with siblings with different "fathers".....none of them around. Not unusual and not new...in fact this is possibly DECREASING now compared to 100 years ago. This is a legacy of slavery....not sure one can argue this in the USA.


So I am not sure what you mean about proper parenting. Most of the middle class which emerged after WWII came out of households where their father was an absent factor....some having siblings mothered by a woman who had several baby fathers.


You do know that "baby mother" and "baby daddy" are Caribbean terms.

What is evident is that pathologies increase among the Caribbean origin people who were raised in and/or born in the USA. Ditto for Canada and the UK.

There is just some thing about being a visible ethnic minority which brings with it more challenges. I use Caribbean people as a control group where you have both those who were raised where race isnt an issue, and color much less so than before, and their offspring who arent so lucky.

So the question is why the increase in negative attitudes among those who are raised in the USA/Canada/UK? Why the loss of drive and ambition? Why the increased belief that their race is a limiting factor?

Dress patterns are similar in the Caribbean, the dialect way more distant from standard English, yet you will see working class men out there hustling for a living and not expecting any one to help them support their families.

Go to the end of teh subways in black neighborhoods and its Caribbean accents you hear among the man operating as pirate taxi drivers...instincts from the Caribbean where they feel they must hustle a living...even if not approved in a more regulated society. Their sons seem less driven to do this...and these men are clearly un/under-employed, as the hassles from the police would mean that others with better choices would not pursue this line of business.

So its way deeper than you paint it to be. Check out construction sites and its likely that the blacks who you see performing the skilled tasks have Caribbean accents...meaning they are neither AAs, nor are they US raised Caribbean people. Something told them in Jamaica, Guyana or where ever that they can hustle to get a trade. Much lacking in the USA among working class black males.
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Old 05-04-2012, 04:04 PM
 
6,963 posts, read 5,446,964 times
Reputation: 3448
Quote:
Originally Posted by 11KAP View Post
^ and don't forget to mention that mostly only the
bourgois carribean people .

Sorry not true. Up to 40% have not completed high school.
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Old 05-07-2012, 10:00 AM
 
Location: USA
8,016 posts, read 9,073,035 times
Reputation: 3383
^ well what about the other 60%? see?


do you really think that the recession is real,
and if so, how can you explain why the rich
continue to make profits and salaries that
are at least 5 to 10 times more than the
average middle class salary?
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Old 05-07-2012, 10:22 AM
 
64,714 posts, read 66,206,532 times
Reputation: 43118
simple economics, they own the companies or run the companies and have to cut costs to stay profitable.
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Old 05-07-2012, 10:30 AM
 
Location: USA
8,016 posts, read 9,073,035 times
Reputation: 3383
^ well i guess there is no way to really
end the recession, because the upper-class
has an extreme economic advantage over
the whole nation, and they will just keep
the u.s. government in debt forever on
purpose just so they can stay on top.
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Old 05-07-2012, 02:48 PM
 
460 posts, read 512,196 times
Reputation: 354
Quote:
Originally Posted by 11KAP View Post
^ well i guess there is no way to really
end the recession, because the upper-class
has an extreme economic advantage over
the whole nation...
That's not why we're still recovering from the recession and that's not why we got into the recession in the first place.
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Old 05-07-2012, 03:02 PM
 
Location: USA
8,016 posts, read 9,073,035 times
Reputation: 3383
^ ok..so finish telling me, and
good luck getting uncle sam out
of debt by taxing the poor more
and more, because the next thing
you know, you will be poor too.

Last edited by 11KAP; 05-07-2012 at 03:10 PM..
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Old 05-07-2012, 03:21 PM
bg7
 
7,698 posts, read 7,640,977 times
Reputation: 14991
Quote:
Originally Posted by 11KAP View Post
^ ok..so finish telling me, and
good luck getting uncle sam out
of debt by taxing the poor more
and more, because the next thing
you know, you will be poor too.
??
The bottom 50% of federal income taxpayers pay 2.3% of the total income tax.

2.3%.

So what the heck are you talking about?
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