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Unread 05-02-2012, 07:00 AM
 
8,712 posts, read 8,425,025 times
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Harlem resident, while I agree superficially with the republican mantra of "you are poor because it is your own fault", I hope that you can THINK and USE YOUR BRAIN and understand being poor is rarely an active choice, and more about living with the few choices available to you.

Yes if you are 14 and "choose" to drop out of school, and "choose" to get pregnant, it is "your own fault that you are poor" and subsequently "deserve all the misery you have inflicted on yourself." However, what you fail to comprehend is that this child didn't have many other choices....stay in a school with violence and dysfunction which simply churns out drop-outs and illiteracy. She has parents (or rather a parent) which is poor and poorly educated because, well, she also didn't have many options growing up for much harsher reasons of course. No wealth was ever generated, because, well, they were never allowed to have any. And the cycle continues.

So while you blame the individual relentlessly, you take great care to ignore the system that ensures we have a substantial poor population and that system is nothing new or unique to the past 20 years. How about I enslave you for 400 years, get rich/amass wealth off your back, build a whole system solely for my benefit, then "set you free" once me and all my friends are all on the top, control everything, and make sure it is rigged 95% in my favor (and my friends' favor) and 5% in yours...just to be fair.

Then let's recap in 40 years to see what you are doing, where you are in life. And if you aren't exactly where I am, or poor, then it is "all your fault" and "you just made bad choices and deserve everything you get" and "I don't think it's fair I have to pay for your bad choices."

This sort of revisionist history, or rather "let's ignore the past because it has nothing to do with today or tomorrow" is ludicrous.
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Unread 05-02-2012, 07:28 AM
 
Location: West Harlem
3,289 posts, read 1,781,453 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SobroGuy View Post
Harlem resident, while I agree superficially with the republican mantra of "you are poor because it is your own fault", I hope that you can THINK and USE YOUR BRAIN and understand being poor is rarely an active choice, and more about living with the few choices available to you.
Unfortunately, you are wrong about everything. In part, this is not your fault given that you have no idea who I am in fact. Nor could you know that I have an intimate understanding of the population under consideration. I have not totally given up, I am still working and strategizing and working more, "in the trenches," as they say. This has afforded me a firm grasp of reality that can only help arrive at solutions in the end. I am an influential participant in that process.

I do not recall stating "you are poor because it is your own fault." This is a particular reading of my post that is ... not at all correct. I do recall stating, here and elsewhere, that people will need to take charge of their own circumstances. There will be no other options. This is not an opinion, it is a fact of our current state of things, and this will be increasingly so.

Everyone is welcome to while away the hours discussing history and ideals. Indeed, I admit that a major portion of my life is dedicated to doing so ! Right now, though, a firm grasp of the present is direly needed. As we discuss "histories" and legacies," yet another child shoots someone or robs someone or even simply fails to get to school on time or fails in school generally speaking. And the ghetto lifestyle grinds on, erroneously labeled "black."

And that's the thing.
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Unread 05-02-2012, 07:37 AM
 
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I agree with taking charge of your own circumstances also...but we have far less control in our lives than TV or politicians would have you believe. And this comes back to the limited choices we all realistically have.

The "ghetto lifestyle" is another product of extreme segregation, or rather a system that created and fostered it. Until the system changes, the individual will have little chance of doing much of anything. Welcome to America, where you are free to make all the choices you want and do anything you want.*

*At this time there are 2 choices available to you.
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Unread 05-02-2012, 08:18 AM
 
Location: West Harlem
3,289 posts, read 1,781,453 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SobroGuy View Post
I agree with taking charge of your own circumstances also...but we have far less control in our lives than TV or politicians would have you believe. And this comes back to the limited choices we all realistically have.

The "ghetto lifestyle" is another product of extreme segregation, or rather a system that created and fostered it. Until the system changes, the individual will have little chance of doing much of anything. Welcome to America, where you are free to make all the choices you want and do anything you want.*

*At this time there are 2 choices available to you.
We have almost no control whatsoever, if we look in that direction, not even to (especially not to ?) obtain factual information about political and economic situations. We all have very few options, the best being to obtain the highest level of critical thinking skills possible and most advanced understanding of history, and then to move ahead, ACTING on these things in the present. Our current culture does not foster this, indeed there is discouragement, but again, people have choices ! For example, nobody is forcing anyone to blast out his/her brain with constant escapist-oriented stimuli; nobody is forced to remove themselves from the public sphere through constant cell phone babble and texting. Yet people willingly do these things and become hostile at any suggestion to the contrary. They have internalized the whole thing. Keep in mind that "narcissistic personality disorder" is officially no longer a disorder. Its existence is far too prevalent.

I deal with the "ghetto lifestyle" every single day. There are a spectrum of choices available and few take the opportunities. This is quite frustrating because it is their only chance for anything at all.

The ghetto lifestyle WAS absolutely the product of a set of historical circumstances. Right now, though, there is a kind of crossroads, and people need to do things differently. If they fail to ... well, suffice to say that someone or something will fill the gap. It need not necessarily be something positive. In fact, I think more and more that a super-consolidation of things will be the case, more of what we have had. But there are choices ! People need to wake up. Everything everyone does every single day counts, one way or the other. Every failure to help someone, every purchase of goods from irresponsible companies; every concession to a defunct system is a gesture of support that strengthens the system.

Perhaps you can help out by teaching the ghetto-lifestyle folks that education IS NOT a part of the defunct system. Nor is the Constitution, I would argue. And it matters little who authored it.
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Unread 05-02-2012, 09:59 AM
 
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As I said...I agree there are personal choices people can make, but until the system and culture changes here, nothing will change for all but a very few. So you can spend your time blaming people for getting pregnant at 14, or you can better use your time and energy to promote a system and culture which provides an easier and productive path for the 14 year old.

And that starts at the top...not the bottom.
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Unread 05-02-2012, 10:08 AM
 
Location: Newark, NJ/NYC
1,103 posts, read 1,061,255 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SobroGuy View Post
As I said...I agree there are personal choices people can make, but until the system and culture changes here, nothing will change for all but a very few. So you can spend your time blaming people for getting pregnant at 14, or you can better use your time and energy to promote a system and culture which provides an easier and productive path for the 14 year old.

And that starts at the top...not the bottom.
And relating it to this topic, the government is cutting something that is actually positive and helps steer kids away from trouble. If these cuts persist, you will not only see more crime happen and more young kids having babies, but a significant amount of those kids parents' will have to step down from their jobs to take of their children during their idle time. It's a domino effect. We blame young kids for having babies at young ages, but yet we won't invest in proper sexual education...SMH.
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Unread 05-02-2012, 11:48 AM
 
Location: West Harlem
3,289 posts, read 1,781,453 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SobroGuy View Post
And that starts at the top...not the bottom.
Except that, I do believe we agreed that this is not likely to happen. Therefore, starting with the individual is better than nothing, and not impossible.

I really do think looking to the top is a waste of time. The individual taking charge of his/her life would circumvent the inevitable.
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Unread 05-02-2012, 12:00 PM
 
Location: West Harlem
3,289 posts, read 1,781,453 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by njnyckid View Post
And relating it to this topic, the government is cutting something that is actually positive and helps steer kids away from trouble. If these cuts persist, you will not only see more crime happen and more young kids having babies, but a significant amount of those kids parents' will have to step down from their jobs to take of their children during their idle time. It's a domino effect. We blame young kids for having babies at young ages, but yet we won't invest in proper sexual education...SMH.
That's right. This is a growing trend. It's just the way it is. People need to change the way they do things.

Crime does not "happen." Crimes are committed by individuals - by agents. It is supported by communities and by the families in communities. Police may come and go, but the community members have some actual power and influence over the individuals who commit crimes.

Young kids CHOOSE to have babies, and their families and communities are vastly too accepting of this. All involved need to begin making very different choices because the previous choices, now cohered into something called "culture," are neither positive nor productive.

If there are no programs for sex education, how about the parents stepping up and doing the job they chose for themselves ? That is to say, being a parent.

Those are the set of responses that will work in the environment we currently have. Note that I am not making a judgment one way or another. Complaining, protesting, analyzing the way things are is another matter. These should not take precedence over finding real, work-able solutions right now.
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Unread 05-02-2012, 02:36 PM
 
Location: Bronx
7,587 posts, read 5,843,610 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by njnyckid View Post
And relating it to this topic, the government is cutting something that is actually positive and helps steer kids away from trouble. If these cuts persist, you will not only see more crime happen and more young kids having babies, but a significant amount of those kids parents' will have to step down from their jobs to take of their children during their idle time. It's a domino effect. We blame young kids for having babies at young ages, but yet we won't invest in proper sexual education...SMH.
I said the samething.
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Unread 05-02-2012, 02:41 PM
 
8,712 posts, read 8,425,025 times
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Everyone can make individual choices, but we all must live within the structure of the system, and the choices we have as a result of the current system are limited for too many people. It's great to spend your time helping one person, but that leaves many millions stuck generationally. The answer is to change the system and the culture, which is what OWS is all about.

Cutting city funding isn't changing anything. When there was lots of money flowing, schools were bad, when they cut funding, schools are bad. There is never a sufficient amount of money..it is a bottomless pit. Funding more or less has no bearing on results so please stop saying it does.
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