To those who also live in the Bronx (Amsterdam, Hudson: houses, neighborhood)

[Guywithacause]

Hustla, my experience has been quite different than yours. The new 2/3 family homes that were/are being put up either by the city (subsidized) or developers (free market prices) have most often been purchased by city workers, and unionized laboreres in various occupations (private and government), who earn high salaries, require easy access to the city, are waiting for their fat pensions to kick in, and have the wherewithall to purchase these new homes instead of moving out of the city. It is not otuside people that have been purchasing these homes historically, it has always been this working/middle class blue-collar base that has filled the shoes of the middle class over the last 15 years.

As for the "white" comment, I am not "getting on anyone." I too am happy when I see a face other than the brown/black ones, not because I think they are coming with suitcases full of cash to buy up the neighborhood, move everyone out, and put up luxury condos and gucci stores, but because the extreme segregation has been very detrimental to these communities.

I live in this city partly because of the great diversity, and that is still non-existent for the most part in parts of the city. I am quite pleased to see that others are rethinking what it means to live in places you term as "the ghetto." I welcome the world to enter these communities and stake their claim, improve, participate, interact, adn we all grow together. Since white faces are not the norm and have for the most part avoided these communities, I do welcome and encourage them to take a second look, as many have, and will continue to do purely for economic reasons, or to just give it a shot. And what's wrong with that??? That's what this city is about.

[teaneckgirl]

Being from Washington Heights I can tell you a little bit about why there is tension when "whites" move in. They just don't seem to be friendly. My 8 year old son was speaking to a friend and the owner of the brownstone was very nasty to them saying to get away from her property. Mind you, everyone on that block was hispanic and like family. Then she comes in and calls the police if anyone happens to be sitting out front of their own building which some might consider ghetto, but it is completely normal for us. Then as more whites moved in and bought up all the brownstones she would tell them things and that's why we have so much tension. There was never an attempt to be civil from the beginning on their side. We don't disrespect anyone but you can just feel the tension in the air when they walk by. They need to stay downtown and let the hispanics live the way they are accustomed to. I can say that there is only 1 white family that is extremly polite and they go out of their way to be nice. the dad actually sits down to play dominoes with the old fellas from time to time. You see, that's how you earn respect in a new neighborhood. NOt be goiing in and trying to change people's way of living off the bat. If they are going to move uptown, then mind your own business or at least attempt to be nice and I don't think that there would be any friction at all. Sorry for the long post.

[Elvira Black]

teaneckgirl, I can appreciate what you're saying. I think that ANY newcomer to any area should try to respect the area and its current residents, as long as they're not all drug dealers etc.

Same complaints from people who live in areas where new immigrants have very loud parties, etc. There should be some attempt to assimilate and have respect for your neighbors.

I do believe that some of the whites moving in have disdain for current residents--you can see some of this sentiment on this board.

Once in awhile, there is a little tension in the area where I live. Yesterday, for instance, a black man passed my boyfriend as he was walking on Fordham Road and muttered "white mother**cker" as he passed by. My b/f turned around but the guy just scurried away. I think this is a very cowardly ploy. But I can also see why some residents would see white faces as a sign of gentrification and fear being displaced in their own neighborhoods.

Just shows that there is of course plenty of racial tension not just in places like Jena, LA but right here in the melting pot. People move into areas and gradually take over, rather than coexisting partially because of the rampant stereotypes and suspicion--combined with a ruthless real estate industy.

I also feel like whites, esp yuppies moving into these communities should not be so quick to flaunt their...well..yuppiness and sense of entitlement. They are coming into someone else's neighborhood, and should try to have some respect for the long time residents of the community rather than waiting for them all to be displaced to make room for yet another white ghetto.

[Guywithacause]

Teaneck I understand where you are coming from. You feel that they are entering "your" community and therefore they must play by "your" rules...whether it be allowing everyone to hang out on their million dollar brownstones, or having kids run around in the streets all night or unsupervised..all of which seems "normal" in washington heights. It is definitely human nature to feel that way, whether it is right or wrong, and this sort of clash has occured througout the history of this city (and probably the world)as new groups have come and gone.

That being said, I cannot explain why they have come across as rude to you and others in the community, except maybe for them it was not rude, but to the community and by your "rules" or customs it is rude. Who knows. What I can say is that these transplants are different from the community, and probably follow a more Americanized version of societal norms that does not include loud music from cars or apts, having gangs of 10 year old kids roam neighborhoods with no parent in sight, hanging out on stoops or otherwise "loitering" in inappropriate places (front steps being one of them), or whatever else that may seem normal in the tiny neighborhood of Washington Heights but is otherwise far from normal in the majority of the rest of the country.

As a result, I would think they are attempting to bring their version of generally accepted American norms and customs to "your" neighborhood of Washington Heights, just as many Dominicans brought their version of accepted norms and values to Washington Heights from the Dominican Republic. The same clash occured I am sure back then with the former white residents (or whoever was there at the time of the big Dominican migration.) who saw the newly arrived Dominicans as loud, rude, unfriendly, ignorant, uneducated, slovenly, or whatever, although that may have been far from the case. It was two groups playing by different rules...the clash is inevitable.

Just rememeber that there were groups that were there before the many Dominicans/Hispanics entered Washington Heights, and they were forced, for better or worse, to make room for the new arrivals, and either live with them, or move-away (and many did just that). The shoe is now on the other foot..will you repeat the same mistakes as the former residents, and repeat the way they treated Hispanics when they first entered? Or will you recognize that it is in fact not anyones neighborhood, but it is everyone's neighborhood, and we all have different customs....what Americans view as rude and inappropriate, Dominicans/Hispanics may believe is polite, acceptable.

It is also important to not that Hispanics have come to America, and as a result, should be more accepting of American customs and norms, and not be annoyed, suprised, or otherwise upset, about having to endure the norms of the dominant culture. I understand that in Washington Heights they play by different rules, however the neighborhood is evolving, and choosing to shun the dominant culture's rules, norms, and acceptable behavior will not make anyone sympathize with your plight (if there really is any). You can choose to fight the inevitable (white people moving in and reinstering mainstream American values and accepted behavior into the community) or you can adapt, learn, and understand how to function successfully in this culture.

I believe there is room for everyone, and I hope that Dominicans/Hispanics can accept, adjust, and make room for the white people who are returning to these communities...we all live together.

[Guywithacause]

Elvira..I agree with your comment about a general disdain for current/longtime members of communities like Washington Heights. I believe that disdain is really misplaced blame...i.e. it is easy to look at all the "chaos" and "dysfunction" that plagues these communities and blame all the black/brown folk for ruining what "used to be a nice neighborhood (aka white neighborhood)." And they will point to the drugs, crime, deplorable behavior, filthy streets, grafitti, trash, and overall poor quality of life that is easily attributed to the people of color that have taken over these neighborhoods.

It is easy to assign blame that way, and just have an overall negative attitude and contempt for those in the community. And many would be quite happy to just pick them all up and send them all back to wherever they came from....and to be honest, on ocassion, I get to the point where I can slip into that mentality..it is easy..especially when you live in these types of communities...but I recognize it is just a knee jerk reaction and just human nature to look down or be averse to those who are different.

I just like the fact that now that the shoe is on the other foot, i.e. white people are moving back into formerly white neighborhoods (but are now Dominican neighborhoods) that Dominicans/Hispanics are having the same gripes/complaints/grievances/concerns about the people and the future of their community as the white's did when Dominicans/Hispanics came in waves. It is human nature, and unfortunately the same mistakes will be made....that's just the way we are.

So take what she says with a grain of salt....it really doesn't matter if it were white people, or a huge wave of Malaysians, same gripes/complaints/grievances/concerns about the people and the future of their community would occur. It's not about race, it's about the attitude of this is mine (which it is not) and you play by my rules or else.

[SuperMario]

Washington Heights is a dump. I pass through Amsterdam and Broadway everyday on my way to school. The graffiti is EVERYWHERE. There are people loitering outside in every block, and the general area resembles the south Bronx in many ways. I don't know why people would want to move there. It's the dominican ghetto.

[NooYowkur81]

There are some very nice areas in Washington Heights. Not all of it is a dump.

Loitering is kinda a part of the culture up there. When I was younger growing up there, it was pretty common to hang out in the stoop of your friend's building. Especially in the summer, forget about it.

But as an adult, I don't condone it. It's a quality of life issue and eases the way for other things to happen that are generally bad.

I'm Hispanic, and I wouldn't feel out of place in Wash. Heights, but If I happened to own one of those brownstones (what part of WH is this? In the 150-160's I would guess because most of the brownstones are in Harlem) I wouldn't want some strangers just hanging out in front. Granted people should always be polite and respectful.

[Guywithacause]

Lol....sounds like you are suffering from a case of Hustla-itis. Washington Heights certianly has its share of problems, and I for one don't like the area because of the sheer congestion of people, traffic, lack of parking, high cost, lack of diversified housing (aka homes), and overall pain in the butt to do anything and everthing...the graffiti, trash, etc does not help either.

That being said, it has made some impressive inroads in improving and cleaning up. Those that were able to look past your dismissive, and blanket statement, and chose to look objectively and invest 5 years ago have reaped the rewards..and continue to do so. I believe Washington Heights, Inwood, and Harlem earned the highest appreciation over the past 5 years, and made the most dramatic changes of anywhere in Manhattan. One man's dump is most certianly another man's treasure (and bankroll too!). I appluad the visionairies, entreprenuers, risk takers, and investors, who put aside the negative BS and were able to reward themselves, as well as improve the community for everyone to enjoy by opening retail establishments, commercial businesses, and revitalizing homes and apartments. We need more of them in this city....because we have more than our fair share of naysayers..

[SuperMario]

Originally Posted by NooYowkur81

There are some very nice areas in Washington Heights. Not all of it is a dump.

Really? Like where. I would like to know because from what I've seen is a nasty nasty place.

Also are there any houses or rural areas in the Heights?

[NooYowkur81]

Originally Posted by SuperMario

Really? Like where. I would like to know because from what I've seen is a nasty nasty place.

Also are there any houses or rural areas in the Heights?

I would know because I lived there almost half my life, your basing your opinion on a few blocks you happen to stroll through on your way to school.

A lot of Riverside and Fort Washington is very nice and has been so for years. There are also other areas that are nice as well.

So if a place doesn't have any houses or rural areas then it's a dump? So then according to you practically the whole city is a dump.