Gentrification unavoidable in NYC ?? (Brighton, Madison: real estate, apartments, rentals)

[Popfizz]

I feel gentrification of neighborhoods in general ruins the history and "original" feel of an area and dislike it very much . In NYC, countless areas have already been gentrified and more on the way there i.e BK , Heights, Harlem( 8- block renovation "works" helloo!)

I was wondering ... is this a cycle or a wave to this since many "hoods and places people would label ghetto now a days were once prosperous back in the day ??

What key things keep gentrification away from most of the Bronx ??

What are the least gentrified areas of Manhattan ??

Also... I'm sure many "yuppies that occupy these new condo's and take their dog to the dog park with a Starbucks in their hand" read this site....

What is your take on moving into the new, culturally-different , at times unwelcoming neighborhoods to live ?

Is the character of the nabe that attracts you ? Prices ? Or being a "pioneer" ??


Thanks for all answers !

[Bronxguyanese]

Originally Posted by Popfizz

I feel gentrification of neighborhoods in general ruins the history and "original" feel of an area and dislike it very much . In NYC, countless areas have already been gentrified and more on the way there i.e BK , Heights, Harlem( 8- block renovation "works" helloo!)

I was wondering ... is this a cycle or a wave to this since many "hoods and places people would label ghetto now a days were once prosperous back in the day ??

What key things keep gentrification away from most of the Bronx ??

What are the least gentrified areas of Manhattan ??

Also... I'm sure many "yuppies that occupy these new condo's and take their dog to the dog park with a Starbucks in their hand" read this site....

What is your take on moving into the new, culturally-different , at times unwelcoming neighborhoods to live ?

Is the character of the nabe that attracts you ? Prices ? Or being a "pioneer" ??

Thanks for all answers !

I can answer 3 of your questions. What keeps the Bronx from gentrifying is distance from the city core and stigma of the Bronx past and reputation which the Bronx cant shake off. The Bronx is already experiencing some sort of gentrification. Hipsters and artist live in Mott Haven and Port Morris areas of The south Bronx and by the civic Yankee stadium area has a growing yuppies crowd. Last belmont area by fordham university near litttle italy might have lite gentrification due to students living off campus. Riverdale has yuppies living in the area already. These are the only areas of the Bronx that will experience gentrification even though there are social ills around the corner. Hey les and williamsburg had social ills during its process of gentrification.

Least gentrified areas of Manhattan is Washington heights and inwood east of Broadway aswlls as parts of Harlem

I have seen many yuppies walking around with iphones in one hand and starbucks in the other hand.

[Kefir King]

What are the least gentrified areas of Manhattan ??

Paradoxically, I think the least gentriFIED area of Manhattan is the area that acutally has housed the REAL gentry for most of the last Century.

There was no NEED to gentrify FIfth, Madison and Park Avenues between 60th and 90th, it was built for the rich and stayed that way.

I was wondering ... is this a cycle or a wave to this since many "hoods and places people would label ghetto now a days were once prosperous back in the day ??

It is very MUCH a cyclical process because recycling neighborhoods is the only way that real estate developers, who RUN NYC, can make money. They target one area aftter another to destroy and then rebuild. The LAST thing they want is stability because there's no CASH in it.

[saturnfan]

We used to live in Alphabet City.

Amazingly, yuppies are now there paying big money.

[SobroGuy]

Considering "gentrification" (aka "urban renewal" or "revitalization" or whatever terms used prior) has been occuring in some form over the last 100 years or so, I would say gentrification is a part of NYC.

One of my favorite parts of NYC is the LES/Alphabet City. It is old school, gritty, some graffiti, lots of amenities and bars/restaurants, diverse, young and still has the traditional NYC feel and walk-up buildings in various conditions. There is no doubt why people pay big money to live there...it is still cool.

As for the reason why the Bronx hasn't "gentrified" in the traditional terms is mostly due to our elected officials not allowing it to happen. If you want luxury multimillion dollar condos and coops, you have 3 other boroughs for that. If you want affordable housing, working/middle class communities, green space, with reasonable commutes (and south of 161st st very short commute ) to midtown/downtown districts, the Bronx is geared to that.

You will likely see real gentrification come to the Bronx when they start to develop the waterfront in Mott Haven/Port Morris (very southern tip of the Bronx). They have alread planned mixed income towers/condos/rentals, commercial space, retail, restaurants, and green space....and is planned to break ground within the next 7-10 years. Everything happening now in the Southern Bronx is in preparation for the massive waterfront development.

[barkomatic]

Yet if you were born and raised in a particular neighborhood and buy your apartment or building you get to cash in along with the developers after the Starbucks goes in on the corner.

That's exactly what an old landlord of mine did when I lived in Park Slope. He and his wife lived in the area their whole lives and bought their building when there was a crack house across the street. Now they've got millions in equity--good for them.

In order to preserve neighborhoods and restore them to the grandeur of the 1970's should we enact laws preventing the buying and selling of property, block certain businesses from opening, and restricting the presence of police in a certain area so that the neighborhood has an authentic level of crime?

Every time someone complains about gentrification, there is never an alternative given.

For the record, I think there should be more affordable housing options available to people -- I think that lies at the heart of the gentrification complaints.

[Arxis28]

The city really just needs to build new middle-income housing throughout the other boroughs. Problem why developers can't do it is because construction costs are so overpriced that only luxury apartments make sense. There should be a union of city workers who just continuously construct housing on underutilized stretches (railyards, parking lots, vacant lots) of land that are convenient to mass transportation.

And by affordable, I mean housing that should be affordable for families making between 35-90k. I'm irked I can't live in those new 42nd Street towers because I don't make less than 24k or more than 124k. What about the rest of us....

[Pruzhany]

Originally Posted by Popfizz

I was wondering ... is this a cycle or a wave ...were once prosperous back in the day ??

Sociologically NYC (more Brooklyn than any other boro) when through cycles as each new of immigrants arrived. You'd have two to three generations live in a neighborhood grow financially and move to a new neighborhood. Then the next group of immigrants would replace them. It is known as the ripple effect. The last large group of immigrants were the Russians in the 70's. In the 70's through 90's they had numerous small neighborhoods. By the 90's their last Brooklyn area was Brighton Beach that still has the original influx of immigrants and the generations that followed. But now they've spread out to Sheepshead Bay, Manhattan Beach and onto Staten Island. Another neighborhood to look at is Bushwich. It got filled by post WW2 European Jews who stayed there until the late 50's and then moved on. There was no immigrants to replace them so bordering poorer neighborhoods swallowed it up and within a decade it was slum looking and another decade houses and buildings were being boarded up. It became extremely dangerous and the property devalued to nothing. So do you just let the neighborhood get to the point where buildings are getting bulldozed or do you start offering incentives to developers to re-build these areas? Of course you know the answer is. The developers built homes to entice people who are going to make the area grow. Which it did. Thus as decades past again it got renamed gentrification.

The areas that are getting gentrified is not the fault of the original working families that moved in. It is their kids. And as they grow up they have kids who are worse then their parents were. You get multigenerational no one cares syndrome. We've tried affordable housing and it failed through the decades. Gentrification is necessary to force poorer people to thrive higher or leave. NYC can no longer afford any more free rides. NYC has gotten to the point thev're created imaginative ways of giving out tickets to generate funds. There was an article on the net about a woman who threw a used newspaper in a city trash can and she was fined. She pulled it out of the trash and PO where she could dispose of it. The PO told her to take it home. She was going to leave it on the street but the PO offered her another fine for littering - so she didn't.

[Pruzhany]

There should be a union of city workers ..............

You need to research the cost of city laborers. Here I'll give a start: Research Dept of Sanitation workers and Asst District Attys with 5 years on the job. You may be amazed on who makes more money.

[RegalSin]

First off, it is caused by the renters. Some of which are on this forum. They take advantage of people moving in without understanding that they are paying too much. A ghetto is any place with one group of people. In this case we are talking about the non-heterosexuals who are the cause behind this gingerfication, then the out of town college students. Their is no "hood" in NYC, that is a complete, commercial mindset, giving to us by Hollywood. In NYC their are many youths, going threw tri, in the youth culture, and that determines their place in society.

You want to get rid of the gingerfication. Then you need people who are born in NYC, from a diverse setting who are willing to live in these area. However most are smart enough to save their money buy a house, or entire building instead.

The need understand the differnce in culture and not the difference in peoples skin color, body shapes, and language.