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Old 01-06-2012, 01:25 PM
 
8,752 posts, read 9,665,287 times
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Change, positive change that is, always comes slowly. I am very bullish on Harlem, and think it has tremendous upside for a longer term investor (10 years), much like East Harlem, the Heights, and Southern Bronx. Basically uptown is where we are seeing alot of development and change.

If you are a recent arrival and believe Harlem should be gentrified in 5 years or less, you are living in another planet (or at least another city). Whereas most of the US will evict you because you looked at the LL the wrong way, here tenants can do almost anything short of murder and still retain their residence. You either accept this fact, or not.

As a result, we can all agree Harlem has improved quite a bit, and will almost certainly continue to improve despite the bumps, challenges, and set-backs along the way. It will be a more mixed income, mixed-color community, which in some people's eyes will make it less appealing/unattractive.
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Old 01-06-2012, 07:45 PM
 
Location: The Bronx
4 posts, read 2,687 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NY2ATL2NY View Post
how dare you!!!..aint nothing wrong wit the "hood environment"...certain hoods have the vibe they have becuase thats the way its supposed to be!!.crown hts is full of jews, soho is full of yuppies,the south bronx is full of spanish...my point is that nyc is a diverse place..and its ****in downright wrong to push families out simply becuase you can afford to live there and decided you want to leave your neck of the woods.. .you cant turn all 5 boros into the land of the ****in rich!! Becuz contrary to popular belief ummm nyc wouldnt be able to survive without the poor...sorry..i dont think bloomberg has enough to keep new york city afloat...neither of his friends either...
Why do ppl always say the South Bronx is full of hispanics when practically the whole borough is predominately hispanic. They say it as if only the southern portion of the Bronx is predominately hispanic.
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Old 01-07-2012, 01:00 PM
 
Location: Planet Earth
3,360 posts, read 3,742,793 times
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Originally Posted by hanson1658 View Post
Why do ppl always say the South Bronx is full of hispanics when practically the whole borough is predominately hispanic. They say it as if only the southern portion of the Bronx is predominately hispanic.
Because the North Bronx isn't predominantly Hispanic outside of a few neighborhoods (Norwood, Bedford Park, Van Nest, and Kingsbridge). You have Black neighborhoods in the Northeast Bronx (Wakefield, Williamsbridge, Edenwald), and the rest is predominantly White.

I mean, you have areas like Morris Park which are around 25% Hispanic, and areas like Throgs Neck which are around 50/50 White/Hispanic outside the projects, but those areas aren't predominantly Hispanic. I mean, practically every area has a small concentration (20+%) of Hispanics, but most of the areas that are 50+% Hispanic are in the South Bronx

And yes, I know The Bronx overall is 54% Hispanic, but again that doesn't mean they're spread out evenly across the borough.

That's like saying that Staten Island is predominantly White, but only in the southern portion (I know it isn't as good as an example because the "southern portion" goes pretty far up), which is a true statement. The far North Shore is predominantly Black and Hispanic.
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Old 01-07-2012, 05:28 PM
 
839 posts, read 476,084 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick Bateman Jr View Post
No one said anything about pushing families out. It's usually the landlords who push those families out to improve the QOL, increase profits, etc. Nothing in life stays the same.

Are you saying that Harlem and Washington Heights (2 neighborhoods that i lived in) are predisposed to being hood/ghetto? To be hood/ghetto is a state of mind which usually hinders the economic and social progress of an individual. Not sure why anyone would associate themselves with that mind-frame. Just because you see rappers act,talk,dress, etc that way in music videos and movies does not being you should too.

Well, isn't that what gentrification does? It pushes out the poor families and unwanted.
People can sugar coat it all they want but the truth is, if you are rooting for gentrification, you are rooting for the displacement of poor families. Everytime you talk about Gentrification, every time you think about it, you are basically talking and thinking about the decimation of poor families.

And the ghetto is not only a mind set, it is a place. It's a place where a minority is a majority.

People act like rappers because they can relate to them.
Have you ever heard a song where you can relate to what the artist was saying? You would find that artist easier to listen to because he/she knows what you have been through.

That's what happens with these ghetto kids.

My source of information.
Newark, Nj resident
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Old 01-07-2012, 05:34 PM
 
839 posts, read 476,084 times
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Originally Posted by checkmatechamp13 View Post
Those poor families will be able to find decent places in the outer boroughs or nearby suburbs.

Decent? They are pushed to poor suburbs where crime will be just as bad as it was in the city.

Look at places like Penn Hills,Pa

The crime rate is rising because all the poor resident being pushed into the suburbs.

Crime is going to end up rising in Staten Island because of this.
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Old 01-07-2012, 06:00 PM
 
1,738 posts, read 2,118,948 times
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If we want to look at things from a racial standpoint, the real truth is Black America itself is splintering. There is a large, majority chunk that is rising in income, class and achievement. With this however has come a melding into mainstream America. More interracial marriages, moving into white suburbs, adopting the taste of Middle class America. There's lots of Black kids here in Suburban Philly who wear Abercrombie, Listen to indie rock, play hockey/soccer, and generally have adopted the culture of what used to be mostly reserved for Whites and Asians.

This, from my prespective, has been great and what MLK had dreamed. However, the flipside is in places like Harlem, those who have not advanced in life are still immersed in their cultural island of ignorance, violence and hostility. With more ambitious AA's moving up and out of the ghetto, those who stay behind are left without any real role models.

It's less about oppression and more about divisons in America in general. America is becoming more like England. It's less who you are than it's your pedigree.
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Old 01-07-2012, 06:18 PM
 
839 posts, read 476,084 times
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Originally Posted by Shizzles View Post
If we want to look at things from a racial standpoint, the real truth is Black America itself is splintering. There is a large, majority chunk that is rising in income, class and achievement. With this however has come a melding into mainstream America. More interracial marriages, moving into white suburbs, adopting the taste of Middle class America. There's lots of Black kids here in Suburban Philly who wear Abercrombie, Listen to indie rock, play hockey/soccer, and generally have adopted the culture of what used to be mostly reserved for Whites and Asians.

This, from my prespective, has been great and what MLK had dreamed. However, the flipside is in places like Harlem, those who have not advanced in life are still immersed in their cultural island of ignorance, violence and hostility. With more ambitious AA's moving up and out of the ghetto, those who stay behind are left without any real role models.

It's less about oppression and more about divisons in America in general. America is becoming more like England. It's less who you are than it's your pedigree.
You make it sound like every race will soon join together, hold hands, and sing kumbayah.As long as Whites move out when non-whites move in(Yes it still happens), there will always be Blacks living in the ghetto in large amounts. Are you forgetting? This is America, where racism lives very alive and well. Maybe not as much as in the 70's or 60's but it is still alive.

"However, the flipside is in places like Harlem, those who have not advanced in life are still immersed in their cultural island of ignorance, violence and hostility."
You think the people in Harlem love the violence and disparity? They hate it just as much as you do. They just don't have the option to move around whenever they want. And it doesn't really help that Gentrification is raising rents.
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Old 01-07-2012, 06:20 PM
 
Location: Planet Earth
3,360 posts, read 3,742,793 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ilovethecommunity View Post

Decent? They are pushed to poor suburbs where crime will be just as bad as it was in the city.

Look at places like Penn Hills,Pa

The crime rate is rising because all the poor resident being pushed into the suburbs.

Crime is going to end up rising in Staten Island because of this.
The crime rate may be the same, but at least they'll have fresh air and open space.

The point is that they won't have to move to an area that's worse than the area they came from. They'll have to commute, but everything else about their quality of life will remain the same, even if the area becomes as bad as their old neighborhood, which doesn't even necessarily have to happen, since they might spread themselves out. There are a lot more places to move to (land-wise) in the suburbs than in the city, so it's easier to spread out.
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Old 01-07-2012, 06:26 PM
 
Location: Seine Saint Denis 93
567 posts, read 696,888 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shizzles View Post
With more ambitious AA's moving up and out of the ghetto, those who stay behind are left without any real role models.
That is the next challenge, if we want the whole ghetto to improve, the few who managed to make it need TO STAY instead of moving to the suburbs or to wealthier areas, this is imo the type of initiatives that could improve the living conditions in the ghetto, and uplift the mentality of the inhabitants in it
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Old 01-07-2012, 07:32 PM
 
Location: Brooklyn, NY born & raised!
2,189 posts, read 1,828,919 times
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Originally Posted by Kefir King View Post
They tried quotas for years it with Starrett City (Jamaica Bay) to keep the demographic mixed. They used separate waiting lists...black lists got longer, white lists grew empty. (efect was that a white family could move right in without waiting.)
Then the Supreme Court ruled any quota plan was illegal...and the place went basically all-black.

Thus, no quota system can be allowed.
I remember when this happened. We lived in Starrett from '75 to '98. Even with the racial quotas the management tried to impose, the area was very racially diverse.

Once the laws were passed, it was more about them allowing people with Section 8. (Previously they were not allowing it). Once that happened, all of the people from the neighboring projects in Canarsie, East New York, Brownsville and Lindenwood started to apply and move in, the QOL went downhill and the longtime residents moved out. My family stayed long after most of my friends left for other parts of Brooklyn and Staten Island. Our breaking point was when we couldn't get on the elevators without there being urine in it every day.

For gentrification, I can understand both sides of the equation. However, I am not a huge fan of it to be honest. I am seeing it in my hometown of Brooklyn and there are times it takes all my strength to not scream. Some of us like some of the grime in some areas. I liked the ability to get amazing Spanish food in Sunset Park or Bushwick, and now both are being gentrified. It's a matter of time before the people who lived and worked in the areas will be priced out and have to move. The same could be said for Harlem. For years most people outside NYC only knew it as a place to avoid, and now it's a completely different story.

While some areas do need improvement, I don't think they should be completely overhauled. (Williamsburg is a good example).
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