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Old 06-18-2012, 11:32 PM
 
Location: In the heights
22,102 posts, read 23,627,108 times
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Brooklyn has steadily developed its core, but there's a large portion of Brooklyn currently served by the JMZ train that isn't connected to its resurgent downtown core. Right now there are two JMZ line stations (really just J and M) that are about two blocks to either side of the Broadway G stop (the Hewes and Lorimer stops) which seem like an underutilized piece of infrastructure.

Due to transit funding woes, even the simplest solution of allowing a free outside transfer such as the one offered on the 59th st-Lexington stop between the N/Q/4/5/6 and the F train is unlikely to be implemented. However, even if this were implemented, it seems like a bit of a stop gap measure. The G train currently has its exit and entrance at Broadway straddling the JMZ line and the properties around it are single-story mostly bargain basement stores and their parking lots. It seems like this is a prime junction point for the MTA to request capital funds in order to allow an entirely new station on the JMZ line allowing for direct transfers between the two as the properties currently aren't currently insanely valued. A Broadway JMZ station here seems feasible and would probably lessen the crunch along the L train as the J offers a direct connection to the LES, Chinatown, City Hall and downtown/financial district for G train transfers, the M would offer weekday service along sixth avenue for G train transfers, and give J and M train riders links up to Williamsburg, Long Island City, and down to downtown Brooklyn.

Neither the JMZ or G trains are regularly at capacity (they are in fact two of the most below capacity lines in the system) and are basically underutilized infrastructure right now, so it seems like the returns for a capital investment in creating a new consolidated Broadway & Union J/M/G would be particularly cost-effective. It also seems like since Marcy Avenue and this new Broadway & Union stop are so close, that it'd be politically feasible to close down the Hewes street stop in order minimize some of the costs (and maybe the platform could become some kind of interesting public space or commercial space that watches the trains pass by).

Any thoughts on this?

Last edited by OyCrumbler; 06-18-2012 at 11:41 PM..
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Old 06-19-2012, 12:03 AM
 
Location: Hudson County NJ
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Haven't they added additional trains on the L? Has crowding diminished? I don't think that point where the JMZ & G cross paths but aren't internally connected is traveled enough of a corridor for enough passenger demand to equate into it a transfer connection point :-/ A free transfer at Hewes/Broadway could be a simple thing the MTA does to relieve passengers of inconvenience that rely on both the G for LIC/Downtown BRK and J/M for Midtown/Downtown Manhattan. The subway system is so complex and antiquated there could be multiple courses on the logistics of it.
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Old 06-19-2012, 12:10 AM
 
Location: In the heights
22,102 posts, read 23,627,108 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Midwesterns45 View Post
Haven't they added additional trains on the L? Has crowding diminished? I don't think that point where the JMZ & G cross paths but aren't internally connected is traveled enough of a corridor for enough passenger demand to equate into it a transfer connection point :-/ A free transfer at Hewes/Broadway could be a simple thing the MTA does to relieve passengers of inconvenience that rely on both the G for LIC/Downtown BRK and J/M for Midtown/Downtown Manhattan. The subway system is so complex and antiquated there could be multiple courses on the logistics of it.
The L train has added better signaling where trains can run closer together, but I'm not sure about more trains (maybe, I just don't know).

It's not so much just making it more convenient for current passengers, but to shift more people on to those lines who wouldn't have otherwise. I'm thinking the added convenience would also add more demand as people can see on a map that transfers are possible and realize the possibilities for their commutes. I suggest the new station since it's a much more concrete connection between the two and seems to have a relatively low infrastructure cost given their current intersection and the sort of development currently surrounding the Broadway G train (which might change drastically in the years to come, so makes more sense to capitalize on it now).
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Old 06-19-2012, 07:35 AM
 
Location: Brooklyn
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Someone thought of this a long time ago--like, three quarters of a century. There would've been a connection at Broadway on the G line with the South 4th Street station. Had that line ever been built, of course.

Yeah, the G and J/M/Z lines cross paths in Williamsburg. But you'd have to call the likelihood of a physical connection being built unlikely. (Unlikely, but not impossible; in the 90s, MTA planned to close and demolish the Franklin Avenue shuttle line. They didn't expect the degree of community resistance, and look what happened: it was totally renovated rather than being demolished. So I'd say that if enough noise comes from riders in the Williamsburg area, you never know what could happen!)
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Old 06-19-2012, 09:22 AM
 
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It's too far apart to build a transfer. More than 5 blocks. The only transfer that can happen here is the out of system transfer.
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Old 06-19-2012, 08:50 PM
 
Location: Planet Earth
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roadcruiser1 View Post
It's too far apart to build a transfer. More than 5 blocks. The only transfer that can happen here is the out of system transfer.
He's saying to build a new station on the (J)(M) that connects to the (G) line, and close down the Hewes Street (and I'd probably close the Lorimer Street station as well). Yeah, as of right now, the only thing they can do is make an OOS transfer.

I think it's a good idea. But didn't they do some renovations on those stations a few years ago or something? They might not want to close them after they put so much money into renovations (if indeed, that was the case).
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Old 06-19-2012, 08:58 PM
 
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I always used it as an out of system transfer- then again, I had an unlimited metrocard. I think it would be a super super convenient OOS transfer and would alleviate some of the congestion on the L at lorimer by giving a new option for those heading downtown. And in terms of the G line- it actually does get pretty crowded at rush hour. Not as extreme as the L, but its always standing room only by Bedford-Nostrand (northbound) and pretty tight standing room by Metropolitan. Plus I have seen people not able to squeeze into the train at Nassau in the morning. With the huge boom in popularity of the neighborhoods that the G runs through I think they will need to add a 5th car to the train within the next few years. And also (for all y'all G train haters, lol)- the G train is the most consistent train I've ridden. It's no longer the extremely spotty and unpredictable G train of 8 years ago. It picks me up every single morning at the same exact time (like creepy on time, within 30 seconds or so).
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Old 06-20-2012, 07:49 AM
 
Location: Brooklyn
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I don't think an out-of-system transfer is going to be too popular (at least with the powers-that-be at MTA). If you remember, prior to 1999 that's what you did at Franklin Avenue, going from the shuttle to the C line. It was a sinkhole of abuse.

On the other hand, since paper transfers aren't a part of the picture any more, it would probably work better now than it did then. But I don't think they're going to see a transfer between the G and J/M/Z as all that important. At least, not until people who live in the area start making enough noise about it.
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Old 06-21-2012, 08:43 AM
 
Location: In the heights
22,102 posts, read 23,627,108 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by knh39 View Post
I always used it as an out of system transfer- then again, I had an unlimited metrocard. I think it would be a super super convenient OOS transfer and would alleviate some of the congestion on the L at lorimer by giving a new option for those heading downtown. And in terms of the G line- it actually does get pretty crowded at rush hour. Not as extreme as the L, but its always standing room only by Bedford-Nostrand (northbound) and pretty tight standing room by Metropolitan. Plus I have seen people not able to squeeze into the train at Nassau in the morning. With the huge boom in popularity of the neighborhoods that the G runs through I think they will need to add a 5th car to the train within the next few years. And also (for all y'all G train haters, lol)- the G train is the most consistent train I've ridden. It's no longer the extremely spotty and unpredictable G train of 8 years ago. It picks me up every single morning at the same exact time (like creepy on time, within 30 seconds or so).
Yea, the G train fortunately has room for added capacity simply by adding train cars whereas other lines don't unless they increase the platform size. As the neighborhoods along the G line boom (as do Long Island City and Downtown Brooklyn as employment centers), ordering more cars in order to run larger sets would be a lot less expensive than having to expand all the platforms.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fred314X View Post
I don't think an out-of-system transfer is going to be too popular (at least with the powers-that-be at MTA). If you remember, prior to 1999 that's what you did at Franklin Avenue, going from the shuttle to the C line. It was a sinkhole of abuse.

On the other hand, since paper transfers aren't a part of the picture any more, it would probably work better now than it did then. But I don't think they're going to see a transfer between the G and J/M/Z as all that important. At least, not until people who live in the area start making enough noise about it.
True, but isn't it generally more costly to follow after development rather than do it in anticipation of development?
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Old 06-21-2012, 05:00 PM
 
Location: Staten Island, NY
255 posts, read 403,304 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OyCrumbler View Post
Yea, the G train fortunately has room for added capacity simply by adding train cars whereas other lines don't unless they increase the platform size. As the neighborhoods along the G line boom (as do Long Island City and Downtown Brooklyn as employment centers), ordering more cars in order to run larger sets would be a lot less expensive than having to expand all the platforms.
You don't have to extend platforms to add capacity and the G is fine as it is. The G actually used to be 6 cars per train before the creation of the V line in 2001.

In the subway, I would think "Capacity" means how many trains can you fit into a line at a time while also not tangling up the other lines that it physically connects to.
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