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There are plenty who value education, have role models and have attended good schools. But my experience, and those of others is that it only goes but so far in situations where you are not necessarily being judged by what you know. I chose to leave the corporate world after 25 years in and I'm happier, my contributions are more valued, and I am recognized for the work I do.
There really aren't plenty (for a variety of socio and economic factors). Pull the stats. You'll be surprised.
I agree with you that it is playing the corporate game and insiders have a huge head start. However, it's really not about Black or White or Hispanic at this point in time. It's about the game and there are plenty of White people who are screwed over as well or don't have the right connections.
Blacks and (to a lesser extent) Latinos in NYC like to pull the race card as if most Whites have it good but that's not true.
The corporate game doesn't make it easier by default for Whites. If anything, Whites are forced to compete against better and more numerous competition (other Whites).
There really aren't plenty (for a variety of socio and economic factors). Pull the stats. You'll be surprised.
I agree with you that it is playing the corporate game and insiders have a huge head start. However, it's really not about Black or White or Hispanic at this point in time. It's about the game and there are plenty of White people who are screwed over as well or don't have the right connections.
Blacks and (to a lesser extent) Latinos in NYC like to pull the race card as if most Whites have it good but that's not true.
The corporate game doesn't make it easier by default for Whites. If anything, Whites are forced to compete against better competition (other Whites).
If you're speaking specifically about CORPORATE work, then yes, the numbers aren't that great. However, if you travel in a group of people as I do, and that's all you see, your perspective could be a bit biased. So, with that said, forget about corporate for a moment and consider all of the blacks in high level government jobs. They are educated and live some swell middle class lives.
All whites don't have it so great. If you were in NYC in the 60s - early 80s, that would be obvious. Plenty of civil service workers with large families struggling to get by. The children of those people aren't in the corporate world either, and most of them have left NYC.
Jewish families were much better off than some other "white" groups back then.
If you're speaking specifically about CORPORATE work, then yes, the numbers aren't that great. However, if you travel in a group of people as I do, and that's all you see, your perspective could be a bit biased. So, with that said, forget about corporate for a moment and consider all of the blacks in high level government jobs. They are educated and live some swell middle class lives.
All whites don't have it so great. If you were in NYC in the 60s - early 80s, that would be obvious. Plenty of civil service workers with large families struggling to get by. The children of those people aren't in the corporate world either, and most of them have left NYC.
Jewish families were much better off than some other "white" groups back then.
I don't mean to be an ass but I don't consider government jobs as on the same level as corporate work. There's no profit motive so the demands just aren't the same. Corporate work is more demanding, more stressful, and runs at a much faster pace.
The corporate world shuns government workers unless they have high level connections. They don't think those who've worked for government for a long period of time can hack it in the private sphere. The truth is they're right for the most part.
Government work is a world unto its own. There's no rhyme nor reason for many things. Most government agencies and departments are run poorly. There's even more nepotism and favouritism in government work than in the private sector.
As for graduation rates. The 2 year degrees you might as well write off completely nowadays unless they're used as a stepping stone to a 4 year degree and beyond.
I don't mean to be an ass but I don't consider government jobs as on the same level as corporate work. There's no profit motive so the demands just aren't the same. Corporate work is more demanding, more stressful, and runs at a much faster pace.
The corporate world shuns government workers unless they have high level connections. They don't think those who've worked for government for a long period of time can hack it in the private sphere. The truth is they're right for the most part.
Government work is a world unto its own. There's no rhyme nor reason for many things. Most government agencies and departments are run poorly. There's even more nepotism and favouritism in government work than in the private sector.
I don't consider them the same either. I think my post made that clear. My point was that there are few blacks in the professional levels in corporate, many in middle management in government, civil services, and other non-corporate professions. Your post about people without education, in low level jobs discounts all of these people in the middle. I was just pointing out that there are more than the two extremes.
I don't consider them the same either. I think my post made that clear. My point was that there are few blacks in the professional levels in corporate, many in middle management in government, civil services, and other non-corporate professions. Your post about people without education, in low level jobs discounts all of these people in the middle. I was just pointing out that there are more than the two extremes.
A sizable portion of those in middle management government jobs would be in low level jobs without government work. I have no qualms about saying this. The definition of "work" is so different in the private and government sectors.
Here's an anecdotal example. My brother's friend (who is white) worked as a government contractor for 3 years at 80k+. His contract didn't get renewed and he went looking in the private sector. The best he got was 55k and many private employers with whom he interviewed explicitly told him that his work at the government level didn't count for much. In fact, with some it worked against him.
The stories this guy told about the office where he worked (financial analyst at a social services office) are out of bounds as well. He literally had 2 hrs of work a day max (this was more than most at the office) and was laughing that the government was paying him what they did.
There are plenty who value education, have role models and have attended good schools. But my experience, and those of others is that it only goes but so far in situations where you are not necessarily being judged by what you know. I chose to leave the corporate world after 25 years in and I'm happier, my contributions are more valued, and I am recognized for the work I do.
I think there's also a misconception among working class people that if one just gets a degree, that's it and of itself, you're smart and you got a good job. NOT! And this is true of all races.
No. It takes a massive amount of investment of your time to build worthwhile connections, and people will only hook you up if you are able to do something for them. If you can't do anything for anyone, why would anyone help you or advance you?
And I've seen whites who fell into this category as well. One can have the education, but not really be aware of what goes on in the business world.
A sizable portion of those in middle management government jobs would be in low level jobs without government work. I have no qualms about saying this. The definition of "work" is so different in the private and government sectors.
Here's an anecdotal example. My brother's friend (who is white) worked as a government contractor for 3 years at 80k+. His contract didn't get renewed and he went looking in the private sector. The best he got was 55k and many private employers with whom he interviewed explicitly told him that his work at the government level didn't count for much. In fact, with some it worked against him.
The stories this guy told about the office where he worked (financial analyst at a social services office) are out of bounds as well. He literally had 2 hrs of work a day max (this was more than most at the office) and was laughing that the government was paying him what they did.
Those jobs were coveted because you used to not be able to fired from them unless you did a felony. Well, that is certainly no longer the case due to budget cuts over the years and whole programs being eliminated.
Remember how ****ty people in old school NY Post Offices were? Then they got hit by the fact consumers and businesses start sending a lot of important documents by e-mail, not just personal correspondence. They were further it by the fact for various orders, many companies began using Fed Ex or UPS. Now that the Post Office was forced to lay off people, now you see much better behavior among postal workers as they know they could be next if they don't behave.
I was thinking about people like my mom, who was a NYC public school teacher. She an educated woman with a degree and credits toward a master's. She could have been a whiz at an accounting firm because she was stellar at math but there was no place for her in corporate because of her gender and race at the time she was in the workforce. I don't think much has changed in that respect. So, you go to the place that'll feed ya. I have no problem with that. We lived a good life.
Or they graduate from a CUNY,and if they want to go grad school, many non whites in the city end up going to Ivy League grad schools if they did well at CUNY. CUNY is certainly an important stepping stone for a lot of people in the city.
I know of a few who went to ivy league schools preferly the ancient 8. All moved out of NY after graduating and have blossoming careers in their new states. I even know some who attended Cuny continued into their masters and are doing quite well here in NYC while some still struggle and get by. Most of my college buddies from CUNY moved out of NYC all together after the recession hit, they have home, cars and better quality of living. But yes CUNY is a huge stepping stone for many especially for the less fortunate, immigrants, single moms and etc.
It gets to a certain point where people need to figure out how to help themselves.
I'm not a big fan of helping people. I'm not a social worker. And I sure didn't cause anyone to be down and out, so why should I be the cure?
The idea that its others JOB to someone help out trashy people (of any national origin) is just silly.
Things that help you get ahead in the US are simply, try not to have kids too young, don't get yourself locked up, and do well in school at least up to high school. This stuff is put out in the media, in school, etc. If some people refused to listen that is their problem, not mine.
Many of these people are Indigenous migrants who only worked on farms and are illiterate even in their own countries--in Spanish. If they are expected to be taught in English, first they need to learn to read and write in Spanish. I think policies like NAFTA forced them up here or something. The U.S. government meddles in the affairs of other countries as well. You can't blame it all on the poor. Do you honestly think that the U.S. is just a friendly place that doesn't really go after illegals and such to be kind? Wake up. They promote it in their own way. Remember this...nothing in life is free...but maybe you're just naive like most Americans. I think calling these people who would have stayed in their own countries if not for our 'economic policies' "trashy" is a little rough. If I could help them, I would. Have you seen those teen pregnancy shows on MTV? At least these people are from impoverished countries!
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