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baylovers, I respect your familiarity with Bushwick and NYC. But my posts immediately preceding this one focused on the precautions one might want to take in an area one has already moved into. The other alternative (as mentioned on the NY Times article quoted above) is to break the lease and (apparently) just risk losing one's deposit if one can't find a replacement tenant (which is probably not hard to do). But then what does the OP do--where does she move to? That is the question...
Again, since many people on this forum either don't reveal their location or in your case your former one, all I could assume is that you live in South Carolina.
The last blackout we had (a few years ago) was from what I recall virtually incident free. History repeats itself, yes, and most of these areas used to be good places to live.
No, I am not an expert on Bushwick. As I said, it sounds like it is much less developed than the Bronx area where I am living, which many would also insist is intolerable. It most assuredly is not, at least for me. Fordham Road is nothing but shopping; the OP doesn't even have a decent grocery store or drug store nearby. She is far from the first person moving into an area like this, without amenities, that later becomes unaffordable altogether as more like her move in. It's already pricey enough.
I guess my point is that though people may advise her to move to "better" areas, those will likely be even more pricey and she obviously doesn't have that kind of money. So she has to make a choice--double or triple up with roomates; move to safer areas further out; live in a closet elsewhere if she can even afford that, or...what?
To the OP and others...try rent.com. They seem to have some nice apts in nice areas of the outer boroughs (plus some in NJ), with STUDIOS generally starting at 1000 (or maybe 950) and up.
Here are a few paragraphs from today NY Times (Oct 7 2007) about Bushwick. Not all roses, no.
Crime may be the fastest way to dispel illusions about a neighborhood. After graduating from Emerson College in 2004 and moving from Boston to New York, Alexandra Eve Tanguay rented a bedroom in a spacious loft building that, according to the ad, was in “East Williamsburg,” Brooklyn, although she realized later it was actually in Bushwick.
The neighborhood was “dark and dreary with random artists’ lofts going up and old buildings being renovated,” said Ms. Tanguay, 24, a media planner. “I thought it was on the verge of gentrification. I thought, ‘I’ll give it a year, and there will be hipster bars everywhere.’ But it didn’t happen that fast.”
Instead, she woke up at 4 a.m. to find a burglar crouched only feet from her bed. She screamed, and he fled (carrying a backpack stuffed with all of her and her roommates’ electronic equipment, along with her Louis Vuitton wallet swiped from a kitchen counter).
“When the cops showed up three hours later, their attitude was like, ‘What are you girls doing living here?’ ” Ms. Tanguay recalled. “It was kind of like, ‘You deserved it.’ I still haven’t told my parents.”
Still, she stayed on because the “rent was dirt-cheap and we were locked into our lease,” she said. To feel safer at night when traveling to and from Manhattan, “we took a lot of cars,” she said. Last year, she moved in with her boyfriend in Williamsburg.
Henna, I'm glad you pointed out this article, since taken in its entirety (with the quote above being the only example given of a truly "iffy" area) it paints a sorry picture of people who moved to very expensive, exclusive areas only to complain about the lack of nightlife or the abundance thereof, proving that money indeed does not buy one the "perfect" home in NYC. I think I will use the article to start a new thread.
She's there so she has to deal with it for now. I don't know why she would ask the question after the fact. Honestly I feel it is a mistake, becuse i'm sure if she looked she could have found a better place at a compareable price. Of course this is how they get people. They get those who do not know any better.
I remember Bushwick back in 1990 when they were blowing up bodegas with grenades to kill off rival drug dealers. Fast foward to today, the same damn problems exist...
Yes, less drug dealers are getting gunned down in Bushwick. That is a fact. However drug dealing is still a very lucrative biz in that high poverty neighborhood. The difference today and the reason as to why less drug dealers are getting killed is...
-It has become too risky to extort. The sales to extortion balance shifted. That was the big thing during the crack era. Easier to sell the stuff now. A lot of neighborhood drug rings got taken down as they become a focus to law enforcement. That is a huge difference. Of course drug killings still do happen. From rip offs to whatever. It's just not nearly as common.
-Less competition. Crack really wined down over the years but weed sales have continued to be lucrative.
Other street crime is still very common. Robbery and felony assualt (weapons). Getting into a fight in these high poverty neighborhooods is always a big mistake. The problem is a lot of these kids start random problems to look hard. Many are just intox. It can be the end if you if you approach it wrong.
As for the other problems beyond violence. Poverty and incarceration over generations has led to many broken families. Many kids drop out of school in these areas, no guideance and sometimes just circumstance. Sometimes young females will get pregnaunt at 14 or 15. Forcing them to drop out. Sometimes oldest children will have to take charge of the family and drop out.
So yes there are many problems and Bushwick is a bad neighborhood still suffering from the same problems it did in 77, 87, or 97 in 2007. Anyone who says different never hung out in the area in the past (or even the present). The only difference is hype (and the changes are only visual and insignificant). The hope is, push the low income people out as the yuppies drive up the cost of living. Of course this is a huge gamble. The poor will always have a place to live in this city, and gentrification is finally nearing areas with significant permenent poverty. Areas that otherwise would not even be considered if it wasn't for the current housing situation.
As for the 77 riot. The reason why it got so bad was pure circumstance. It started late, lasted multiple days I belive, on a weekend, and it was city wide (whole city was out for a while).
During the 2003 blackout there were problems. There was some looting but it was pretty much controlled as the city was better prepaired and in a better place. I do remember storefronts getting ripped off in certain sections of the Bronx for example. Power went on for at least half the city in just a few hours. It started pretty early in the day. Couple reasons. 03 could have easily gone bad. It just didn't.
Oh and another difference I should point out is the change from extreme abandonment to extreme OVERPOPULATION. 2-3 families living together one apartment in Bushwick to pay the rent. New construction blocking out windows of the building next door. Overcrowded schools. Funny how while an old problem went away, a new one rose to take it's place.
Last edited by Hustla718; 10-08-2007 at 03:02 AM..
Yes, Hustla, it's possible it could go either way in some of these areas. The OP had the misfortune (though she may not consider it as such) to move into an area that is just in the beginning stages of pre-gentrification (assuming it will continue). There are so many victims in the real estate wars, from the very poor to the very rich (although it's very hard to feel sorry for the latter). Mislabeling neighborhoods is the oldest real estate trick in the book--back in the day parts of the Lower East Side became the "East Village," and anything that says "Gramercy Park area" is not gonna be in Gramercy Park. And since nieghborhoods can literally vary dramatically from block to block, and mislabeled areas are so close (yet so far) from better ones, that these distinctions can be very significant.
I think the OP was posting this question because so far she has had no problems with safety--her main problem seems to be the lack of shopping and other basic things you would expect in a NYC neighborhood--even a bad one. Since it's one of those post-industrial areas, so far the main influx has probably been artists in the loft areas, as they are usually the first to move in, and "quality of life" takes a backseat to sufficient space to do their work and live somewhat affordably. Eventually they, too, become victims of gentrification, and are often forced to move to yet another "sketchy" area when rents skyrocket--thanks in large part to them! The ironies just abound in NYC real estate....
Look how many posters ask the same questions--where can I live cheaply and safely in NYC? So many of them don't even think about revealing their budget constraints. Doesn't "everyone" know how insanely expensive rents are here, even in areas that the most seasoned New Yorker might fear to tread?
The poor may always have places to live here, but with gentrification so many have been pushed out that it's hard to imagine there'd be room even for all of them if things keep up this way. Money talks, and the poorest (especially immigrants) have very little power. They don't know what their rights are, if they have any at all, and have no idea who might be able to assist them. It's a piece of cake for a landlord to get rid of them, and rent stabilized apts and middle income housing is getting harder to find than ever before.
If a landlord makes "capital improvements" they can pass some of the costs onto the current tenants. Many will inflate the costs to justify huge increases. When the current tenants move out, they can charge even more to the next person. Once the rent tops 2000 dollars, they are not bound by rent stabilization. Others drop out of the program (as well as Section 8) as soon as demand increases and they can charge more. Entire buildings have recently been bought up in Upper Manhattan and the Bronx by corporations like the Pinnacle Group, who use terror tactics to get tenants to leave.
It's a sorry situation all the way around, and maybe we've reached the point where people will say enough is enough, but unless there's a full fledged disaster I'm not sure when or if it will stop. Even after 911 people still visited and moved here in droves.
All I can say is research pays off. Knowledge is one of the most valuable commodities one can have in this information age. But some people are too poor to even have access to the internet, making it even tougher to find any available, suitable spaces to choose from. What I can't understand is people who have the internet and can find out so much just by doing some simple searches, although the more research the better. You don't have to move here completely ignorant of the situation, but so many are too naive to even ask what the rents are like, so there you have it.
All I have to say is, when moving out of state, its hard to know what areas are good and bad. When I came to look at the apartment, I honestly thought all of Brooklyn was like that, so I didnt really have an issue. Yeah, I know I was naive, but I was desperate for an apt. Alos which is weird, when I first moved here, I wasnt scared, not scared of walking, being alone. But now after reading everything I've read, listened to what everybody has said, Im terrified. And the stupid thing is, nothing has changed from when I first moved in to now. I work in Park Slope, so its hard comming back to Bushwick seeing all the nice things that Park Slope has. Im sure everybody is right about Bushwick, meaning its not a good area, and I believe you all, but have any of you guys been here in a while? Like I said my street is usually quiet, and luckily Im like 4 or so blocks away from the train. Oh yeah, also Im not in a lease, month-to-month, so I think Im going to look around for another area of Brooklyn. At the same time, I feel like Im giving up on Bushwick, but in the end I just want to be safe.
Tamcat... a little fear is good. It keeps you alert, complacency will get you hurt.
In most of these less than desireable areas there are many safe and comfortable blocks. Unfortunately, they are often surrounded by more troublesome blocks. The key is to be aware of your surroundings, protect yourself by not flashing jewelry, electronics etc., and avoid walking around at night. If something doesn't feel right cross the street or go down another block, trust your instincts.
Tamcat, you're not the only person who has been scared to death after reading these NYC threads. IMO Hustla tends to paint a very pessimistic picture (and also IMO a somewhat outdated one) about certain areas, but he also has some sound advice and a lot of inside info.
Smart move getting the month to month deal. If you see another listing that looks really good, you can either ask the forumers about it (sometimes a block or two makes all the difference)--or you can just do your research in other ways and say to heck with these guys!
PS--I moved from Manhattan to the Bronx and many forumers think I'm insane. I know better. It may not be right for them, but it's perfect for me at this stage of my life, and that's all that really matters--what's right for you, within the limits of your budget and personal tolerance. Even wealthy NY'ers sometimes make big mistakes just moving from one part of Manhattan to another,and regret it later!
All I have to say is, when moving out of state, its hard to know what areas are good and bad. When I came to look at the apartment, I honestly thought all of Brooklyn was like that, so I didnt really have an issue. Yeah, I know I was naive, but I was desperate for an apt. Alos which is weird, when I first moved here, I wasnt scared, not scared of walking, being alone. But now after reading everything I've read, listened to what everybody has said, Im terrified. And the stupid thing is, nothing has changed from when I first moved in to now. I work in Park Slope, so its hard comming back to Bushwick seeing all the nice things that Park Slope has. Im sure everybody is right about Bushwick, meaning its not a good area, and I believe you all, but have any of you guys been here in a while? Like I said my street is usually quiet, and luckily Im like 4 or so blocks away from the train. Oh yeah, also Im not in a lease, month-to-month, so I think Im going to look around for another area of Brooklyn. At the same time, I feel like Im giving up on Bushwick, but in the end I just want to be safe.
I know the neighborhood quite well--that's my territory for finding buildings to purchase for my group. Most of the neighborhood to the east of Irving (towards Ridgewood, Queens) and north of Myrtle Ave is very attractive and it is the most desirable. From Irving Ave west to Bushwick Ave--it is experiencing the most dramatic change right now--new buildings going up and gut renovations occurring everywhere. South of Myrtle and West of Bushwick Ave is a gamble. Much more sketchy and very unpredictable in terms of gentrification, safety, and investment pay-off. If you "hug the L train" within 4-5 blocks, you're better off in Bushwick.
Last year, I checked out a two-bed, two bath on Wycoff and DeKalb. It was priced at $450K. Didn't take it, because the total monthly charges would have been over $2000, and I did not have the finances for that!
Tamcat, you're not the only person who has been scared to death after reading these NYC threads. IMO Hustla tends to paint a very pessimistic picture (and also IMO a somewhat outdated one) about certain areas, but he also has some sound advice and a lot of inside info.
I think Hustla is posting the reality of NYC. People tend to look at the crime rate of a city with 8.5 million people and say "Oh, wow, I can walk through Bed-Stuy with no problem." They don't realize that this is New York City, the largest city in the country. One block will be yuppified and the next will be a hole. That's NYC for ya. You never know what's around the corner.
Also, this is a city where organized crime is a major problem. How do the police know what's being smuggled in? How do they know a murder took place when the body's tied to a cinderblock at the bottom of the Hudson? They don't.
An estimated only 20% of crime is reported by NYPD.
Who's to say there aren't 1000 homicides a year in NYC? A lot of New Yorkers have no family, are unemployed, have nowhere to live, etc. If they're killed, who will know about it?
I'm not saying NYC is completely dangerous, but there are neighborhoods that have crime rates that are higher than Camden and Compton. Compton’s murder rate is 67 per 100,000. Hunters Point in NYC’s murder rate is over 80 per 100,000.
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