Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
It is rather understandable and expected. Most of these people, and particularly those representing the growth in numbers, are immigrants, legal and illegal.
Isn't this to be expected when huge numbers of immigrants with poor English language skills, littlle education, and few skills of any kind.
This is the reality of those numbers. The Bronx has the highest numbers, because it has the highest number of Spanish speaking immigrants, along with the lowest cost of living.
Brooklyn follows as a result of it being the primarly location for Haitian immigrants. If it isn't already the case, it will soon be that there are more Hatians in NYC than in Haiti.
One thing to also consider is that for many of these immigrants, living in "poverty" in the USA/NYC is a considerable uppgrade in living standards compared to "poverty" in their home countries. Many of these people are, indeed thriving and doing well, from THEIR perspective!! They are meeting and reaching their goals, and likely have a higher level of 'happiness' than born Americans living at or near the poverty level?
So, these numbers need to be looked at in a *realistic* manner. One thing also, important to consider, is the rate at which their children educate themselves, gain skills and climb out of poverty!!! I would suggest that the children of immigrants living in poverty, succeed in over coming poverty at a greater rate than the children of Americans living in poverty.
It is with Americans that a generational phsyco/social pattern of poverty exists (poor whites, poor blacks and poor carribean hispanics).
So the growth in poverty means WHAT exactly??
That NYC is such an attractive city, offering untold opportunity, that it attracts any and all, of whatever meanst, to try their luck! In a way NYC is like a giant real world Casino. Roll the dice and see what happens. Not much difference in that, than a immigrant who made his way to NYC from Ecudor, or a Transplant from Ohio seeking to do better than what the "rust belt" offers.
The Left will simplify their outlook and scream bloody murder at the simple numbers, and like you, OP, look to propagandize the circumstance as some conspiratorical inequity created by the "rich" to enhance themselves at the expense of the poor.
Marxist Socialist propaganda!!
Choosing not to look behind the numbers, but rather to exploit simple facts for political purposes.
*****
Quote:
But I do agree, even this year I made less money compared to last year so that my boss can keep more money for himself.
Presuming that be true, your problem with it is what?
It is HIS business which he created to ENRICH himself??!!! Not you. Do you think your boss owes you something other than a day's wages for a day's work? Isn't that what you signed up for?
Now let us say, your boss in order to maintain his lifestyle, in a declining economy, to pay his mortgage, feed his children pay for their schooling, etc., he cuts back your hours, negatively effecting your lifestyle.
Your problem with this is what? Your resentment is based upon what?
Quote:
NYC poverty rate just keeps on going up. Nearly 1/3 Bronxites and nearly 1/4 Brooklynites are in poverty while Queens rate remains sketchy, all those immigrants living in one home! The problem with poverty in NYC is the extreme polarity of rich and poor, rich....
Isn't this a natural occurrence? In a city of the rich, where "money" inherently begats more money; and a city consequent to its wealth attracts and contiues to attract the poor and least prepared to the most demanding job market.
What else could the situation be?
Again, the real emphasis s/b upon the rate at which the children of poverty succeed; but that story doesn't serve the propagandist means of the Left!
Quote:
...and the wealthy income grew while the opposite happened for the middle class and below....
This is a deep argumentative point, not necessarily true, couched in a too base and simplistic statement.
For example, all those people who bought all those houses they could not afford, in effct acted recklessy financially, whose fault is that? "The rich?" Now, the people are suffering the consequences of their stupidity.
Another simple example, remember the Clinton election, and Ross Perot?
Perot told the nation that NAFTA would equal a "giant sucking sound" of jobs exiting to other countries.
Yet, the people, these same allegedlly declinning middle class elected Bill Clinton who signed the NAFTA agreement, rather than Perot who would not have.
Perot, a very rich man, who told the people the "truth". Clinton, a not so rich man, a person of the people,, screwed the people up the wazoo! Today, these idiots still lament Cliinton!
Quote:
I really cant wait till next year when the poverty rate in NYC jumps up to 1/4, hopefully it would be enough for a mass insurection of civil disobedience where Bloomy and Ray Kelly may have to call the Army National Guard for assitance!
You drank the Kool-Aid, didn't you?
The aim of this "insurrection" will be what?
A bunch of children whinning for their Kool-Aid.
Quote:
Yeah Caleb Swinson of Tabernacle Iowa who moved to The Shwick this past year, yes you make less 10,000 dollars a year making ambigous vague art pieces but its your parents who pay your rent and iphone bill. Ok Mr. Julio and Maya Rodriguez who makes 25,000 a year working a management company while his wife collects welfare of High Bridge section of the Bronx, stop buying Air Jordans for your kids. Kiki Robinson, stop spending your Mcdonalds Money on a months worth salary to afford a Louis Vutton handbag. Chris Ortiz get off the iphone 5 line, no need to upgrade your iphone 4 works just fine, you cant afford LTE anyway.
Sooo, is it the "bad" rich people; or, the stupidity of the "good" poor people?
Whose killing the country? "Caleb", "Julio and Maya", "Kiki" or "Chris"?
the problem is everyone tries to break things down into rich vs poor. most of the time its really just having good marketable job skills vs not.
there are always those that when life hands them lemons they make lemonade and do well, then there are those that fail financially and blame everyone and everything around them for their financial failures in life.
many just drift to where ever life pulls them instead of taking control and making things happen. life is all about the choices we make.
you have to be adaptive , you cant keep doing the same things over and over and hope each time it turns out different, its not.
hope isnt a plan or strategy...
earning minimum wage isnt supposed to be a life long thing. its something we do until we develop our skills . the issue is many dont develop those skills and then complain the rich are crushing them.
here is a secreat: the job markets pay what a job is worth and the closer that job is to something we can just do ourselves the lower the pay.
if most of us had a disease that prevented us from moving our arms perhaps those that could move their arms could earn as much money as doctors just for pouring coffee.
in the land of the blind the one eyed man is king .
you dont have to be the sharpest bulb in the draw. you dont need to have an mba or be a technical wizard. you need to open your eyes and look around you and see where the jobs are.
you may have been the best buggy whip craftsman ever but those skills arent marketable anymore. you need to change. folks are out there chasing ghosts of what was.
i tell my sam kinison analogy all the time.
he is sitting on the stage floor and sifting through a pile of sand. he goes this is sand... nothing grows in sand... it will always be sand. so why not send all those starving folks in these 3rd world countries u-hauls and vans instead of food. that way they can move to where the food is.
we have sand in our deserts in america too but no one lives in them and starves , we move to where the food is.it was a funny skit but soooooooo much truth. go to where the food is... what a novel idea.
folks have to do whatever it takes to earn a living and to afford to live . they cant just drift or they end up with no choices in life and for them there are no answers..
Last edited by mathjak107; 09-22-2012 at 04:01 AM..
.7 million New Yorkers are living below the poverty line, which is defined as those earning less than $18,500 a year. That's an increase of 100,000 people from the year before.}}}
$18,500?? I assume that is for one person but you can't even the afford the rent in a city housing project on that salary.. and unemployment for college grads may be only 7% but even on an entry level salary of say $65,000 most apartments are out of reach especially now in such nouveau trendy places like Astoria where average one bedroom is say $2,000 a month. $2,000 * 40times = $80,000 a year to qualify.
And do they count college kids working say a part time retail job but whose parents are likely subsidizing them say in the thousands per month so they can live in one of the 'hot' or trendy nabes of Brooklyn or Western Queens?
Nick,
Ignoring Poverty levels, the MEDIAN HOUSEHOLD income of East Harlem is $23,000/year. That means that fully HALF of the households live on even less than that amount.
Yes, it's appalling.
These numbers are from people CURRENTLY collecting. They don't talk about the people who were denied, can't collect for not working enough or who fell off the rolls. The government doesn't track these people nor cares what happens to them.
So, I would say the unemployment rate for degreed individuals is probably 12% and over 20% for everyone else.
Correct, marilyn.
A year or two ago, the New York Times quoted both numbers: the monthly unemployment figure relaeased by the government and a 20% figure based on CORRECT data. This occurred only ONCE because obviously the publisher "got a call."
The Unemployment Numbers are probably the most cooked books since Al Capone's OTHER set. In government, the Unemployment figures rival only the Inflation figures for fantasy.
Governments look good with low unemplyment numbers and low inflation numbers, so that's what the government pronounces. Like the captain of the Titanic announcing they hit an ice cube that someone had thrown overboard in a drink.
i think just about every one here knows folks milking the unemployment system, un-intentionally not looking for work until it runs out or working off thebooks.
those numbers are cloudier then the east river.
bottom line is it all boils down to how you are doing . there is quite a bit in the way of employment available .
the problem is those jobs are not available to the masses.
every company has its coveted employees who they would never let go unless they were going out of business.
when these employees are looking for work their bodies never hit the payment.
they are snatched up immeadiately.
we have hired 40 people the last 2 years. all the higher level positions are filled with these best of breed employees.
daily we have the 2nd tier applying for work and rarely do we take them. they like to think of themselves as the best our industry has to offer but they are not.
to them they feel there is no work out there but the truth is there is, its just their tier thats not being employed but i can tell you this, we hired 7 people last week alone from a competitor where the employees finally decided to make a change..
Last edited by mathjak107; 09-22-2012 at 08:32 AM..
It is rather understandable and expected. Most of these people, and particularly those representing the growth in numbers, are immigrants, legal and illegal.
Isn't this to be expected when huge numbers of immigrants with poor English language skills, littlle education, and few skills of any kind.
This is the reality of those numbers. The Bronx has the highest numbers, because it has the highest number of Spanish speaking immigrants, along with the lowest cost of living.
Brooklyn follows as a result of it being the primarly location for Haitian immigrants. If it isn't already the case, it will soon be that there are more Hatians in NYC than in Haiti.
One thing to also consider is that for many of these immigrants, living in "poverty" in the USA/NYC is a considerable uppgrade in living standards compared to "poverty" in their home countries. Many of these people are, indeed thriving and doing well, from THEIR perspective!! They are meeting and reaching their goals, and likely have a higher level of 'happiness' than born Americans living at or near the poverty level?
So, these numbers need to be looked at in a *realistic* manner. One thing also, important to consider, is the rate at which their children educate themselves, gain skills and climb out of poverty!!! I would suggest that the children of immigrants living in poverty, succeed in over coming poverty at a greater rate than the children of Americans living in poverty.
It is with Americans that a generational phsyco/social pattern of poverty exists (poor whites, poor blacks and poor carribean hispanics).
So the growth in poverty means WHAT exactly??
That NYC is such an attractive city, offering untold opportunity, that it attracts any and all, of whatever meanst, to try their luck! In a way NYC is like a giant real world Casino. Roll the dice and see what happens. Not much difference in that, than a immigrant who made his way to NYC from Ecudor, or a Transplant from Ohio seeking to do better than what the "rust belt" offers.
The Left will simplify their outlook and scream bloody murder at the simple numbers, and like you, OP, look to propagandize the circumstance as some conspiratorical inequity created by the "rich" to enhance themselves at the expense of the poor.
Marxist Socialist propaganda!!
Choosing not to look behind the numbers, but rather to exploit simple facts for political purposes.
*****
Presuming that be true, your problem with it is what?
It is HIS business which he created to ENRICH himself??!!! Not you. Do you think your boss owes you something other than a day's wages for a day's work? Isn't that what you signed up for?
Now let us say, your boss in order to maintain his lifestyle, in a declining economy, to pay his mortgage, feed his children pay for their schooling, etc., he cuts back your hours, negatively effecting your lifestyle.
Your problem with this is what? Your resentment is based upon what?
Isn't this a natural occurrence? In a city of the rich, where "money" inherently begats more money; and a city consequent to its wealth attracts and contiues to attract the poor and least prepared to the most demanding job market.
What else could the situation be?
Again, the real emphasis s/b upon the rate at which the children of poverty succeed; but that story doesn't serve the propagandist means of the Left!
This is a deep argumentative point, not necessarily true, couched in a too base and simplistic statement.
For example, all those people who bought all those houses they could not afford, in effct acted recklessy financially, whose fault is that? "The rich?" Now, the people are suffering the consequences of their stupidity.
Another simple example, remember the Clinton election, and Ross Perot?
Perot told the nation that NAFTA would equal a "giant sucking sound" of jobs exiting to other countries.
Yet, the people, these same allegedlly declinning middle class elected Bill Clinton who signed the NAFTA agreement, rather than Perot who would not have.
Perot, a very rich man, who told the people the "truth". Clinton, a not so rich man, a person of the people,, screwed the people up the wazoo! Today, these idiots still lament Cliinton!
You drank the Kool-Aid, didn't you?
The aim of this "insurrection" will be what?
A bunch of children whinning for their Kool-Aid.
Sooo, is it the "bad" rich people; or, the stupidity of the "good" poor people?
Whose killing the country? "Caleb", "Julio and Maya", "Kiki" or "Chris"?
Jcoltrane, I like listining to your Jazz but I hate reading your post, sadly you dont play an insturment like the real Jcoltrane. Queens has many immigrants probably the most immigrants out of any borough and many dont speak English and are heavily poor and still its rate of poverty is not even high as the Bronx or Brooklyn. How does Brooklyn have more Haitians than in Haiti itself, wtf are you smoking old man. Also dont forget that BRooklyn has many poor Hasidic Ultradox Jews due to having large families. Many of these immigrants are not thriving, maybe some are but most of these immigrants are making the scrafice for their offspring to live a better life in NYC or the rest of America from a MExican running a Market to Asians who bust thier culos to do well in some of the worst public schools in the city.
Im no where near a Marxist but I do support some of its ideas. I rather read the Communist Manifesto before I touch or pick up the New Testament which is a book that slaved your people and still does to this very day.
As for that generational poverty cycle of deprivation is disgusting, I hate seeing immigrants fall into that hoie and never climb out of it, same goes for thier offsprings.
As for my boss the cut backs is to help ensure the business thrives. Todays world cut throat world everyone is out to get something or entitled to something. Sadly enough I still dont feel poor why? I live within my means and I watch every move I make. In this economy one wrong move and your out for the count. In matter a fact I had to help a friend with some papers to see if he can get some charges expunged which is preventing him from gaining employment. See what happens when you drop out of school and get caught up in the game of life in the hood.
NYC has always been an attractive city since the Dutch sailed in through its Harbors and noticed its deep Harbor and traded some beads with the Lenape Indians of the Algonquin tribe for Manhattan, or the BRitish who traded Dutch Guiana and Java for Manhattan. NYC attracts immigrants to this day as well as illegal ones, the rich need them for thier low skill labor and why Bloomy has an open door policy for immigrants. Attracting people from the midwest I call this Manifest Destiny Reversal.
Yes I know Clinton screwed over America with NAFTA. All those jobs went to Mexico with U.S companies taking agrarian land from Mexican people turning them into factories taht are now non operational cause those factories now sit in China. Because of NAFTA illegal immigration south of the border picked up. Clinton is nothing but a meer puppet like Bush and even Obama, these presidents work for the same people who have interest in the global economic stake my friend.
I have not drank Kool Aide in years buddy.
I have been waiting for a massive civil disobediance in NYC since 18 effing 63 my friend and on that day poor fought rich, black fought white, immigrants fought natives, Roman Catholics fought Black Baptists/Pescoplian White protestants and Republicans fought Democrats. I pray for a day when another insurrection will take place in NYC.
Bad Rich People VS Good Poor People. Sad thing is how can we talk about poverty when people in poverty are buying materialist goods and not living within thier means to afford lifes necessities. Buy materialist goods and cry foul later on saying your poor, come on. Many people in NYC will never get a chance to experience true poverty in thier life times like fetching water from a pond, or washing clothes with your hands, or drinking brown water or eating mud bricks, While idiots wait days on end camping for an iphone5. Either way the man in the high castle will still get his money! Caleb, Kiki Julio Maya et al are not killing the country but their killing themselves slowly.
well the answer is you can either work to be the guy in that castle or the begger in the street, the choice is yours. there are ways but not everyone has the smarts, the balls or the drive to do it.
having grown up in the woodside housing project i made sure i didnt end up living like those around me.
i jumped from every ready,fire,aim plan i could think of until i found something that clicked.
i worked 3 jobs in my early twenties but i made sure 2 of those jobs had me learning valuable skills that i could use later on.
not sure if i ever told the story but i was a drummer full time. when that was not providing as steady work as i liked i went to apex technical school back in the early 1970's. \
i figured air conditioning and refrigeration was really a black art. folks would fix everything in their house but they would never go into the sealed systems.
i graduated , couldnt find work but crammed and crammed learning my way around the latest commercial systems.
finally i lied about my experience and got a job. learned as much as i could and started my own company doing side work.
from their i got really good trouble shooting complex control systems at the malls and found i was thought of best of breed.
from their i moved into factory automation where right up to today i have worked as a motor control specialist for 40 years.
i made sure i followed my plan and i made sure all along the way i invested as smart as i could.
by 1987 i was investing in my first rental property and going into the financial markets.
with a lot of luck it all paid off and today im looking forward to retiring in 2 years.
but i kept myself on track and driven to never return to those projects again.
Blah blah blah who cares? Just hustle and make that money.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
