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Actually the homeless population in LA and SF is far, far, far worse than NYC. Mild weather and uber-liberal policies means they're absolutley everywhere and just as aggressive if not worse. Just pop in the LA and SF subforums sometime.
Yup LA is worse, but that doesn't make it better. Given I spend my time between Europe and the US, I can assure you that the number of homeless in the US is far worse.
I read a book by Alexis de Tocqueville, it has a lot to do with America being a nation of immigrants, if you havent made it, it is because you are lazy (or so the thinking goes).
Whereas in Europe there is more welfare, as attitudes to poverty were shaped by the older class systems. If you were born a serf you instantly had less poverty than one born into a noble family (outside of your control).
One time, I was catching a bus home and someone litterally asked me to give them the $20 I needed to go home, saying God will bless me forever. When I refused, the guy said I was going to Hell. lol
Yup LA is worse, but that doesn't make it better. Given I spend my time between Europe and the US, I can assure you that the number of homeless in the US is far worse.
I read a book by Alexis de Tocqueville, it has a lot to do with America being a nation of immigrants, if you havent made it, it is because you are lazy (or so the thinking goes).
Whereas in Europe there is more welfare, as attitudes to poverty were shaped by the older class systems. If you were born a serf you instantly had less poverty than one born into a noble family (outside of your control).
Have written about this before; America was founded by English Protestants who endowed this land with what is called the "Protestant Work Ethic". Simply put unlike say the Catholics who believe suffering in this world brings rewards in the next, PWE teaches hard work brings blessings here on this earth. If you are hungry, without shelter, etc... then it is *YOUR* fault for failing to work hard enough and plan/manage your finances accordingly.
PWE does allow for charity, but it had better be for some darn good reasons. It also is not given easily nor generously otherwise people would get too used to it and not work.
In Europe most societies have adopted some sort of socialist ethic; that is there is a basic level no one should fall below and it is the duty of government to see that this does not happen.
Those who follow PWE see high taxation in support of social services as taking of their hard earned money to give to the "grubby and dirty poor". Many Europeans are fine with high taxes (to an extent, *LOL*) because they understand it is the duty of everyone to help those in need.
Have written about this before; America was founded by English Protestants who endowed this land with what is called the "Protestant Work Ethic". Simply put unlike say the Catholics who believe suffering in this world brings rewards in the next, PWE teaches hard work brings blessings here on this earth. If you are hungry, without shelter, etc... then it is *YOUR* fault for failing to work hard enough and plan/manage your finances accordingly.
PWE does allow for charity, but it had better be for some darn good reasons. It also is not given easily nor generously otherwise people would get too used to it and not work.
In Europe most societies have adopted some sort of socialist ethic; that is there is a basic level no one should fall below and it is the duty of government to see that this does not happen.
Those who follow PWE see high taxation in support of social services as taking of their hard earned money to give to the "grubby and dirty poor". Many Europeans are fine with high taxes (to an extent, *LOL*) because they understand it is the duty of everyone to help those in need.
Yes, when you go to somewhere like Sweden its very interesting, they still have an unbelievable work ethic, yet accept higher taxes for welfare as a sort of collective insurance.
As you mentioned in Sweden the attitude was the same, welfare is there, but only if you are really need. You are expected to find new work as soon as possible and start paying back into the kitty as it were.
A lot of the values above are not expressed verbally in Sweden, you are just expected to know, something I found very amusing..
About the PWE vs Catholism some historians say these divergent attitudes still account for the different economic fortunes of a wealthier northern vs poorer southern Europe visible even today.
They wait outside convenience stores also. In stores where the door is open they may watch to see how much change you get back. Also for smokers*-A request for a cigarette may be followed by a request for some cash. When I smoked I would get this frequently. Some are homeless, some are just neighborhood people looking for handouts. I posted how an attempt to buy a sandwich and coffee resulted in the guy freaking out. You never know.
*Yet another great reason to quit smoking.
Indeed.
There are some who will linger around asking you for more after you gave them some money. They really try hard to convince you. - Raise the Alarm -
Then you have the types at a drive-in waiting near the cashier just 1 to 2 feet away of your car window. - Irritating -
Sorry, this is nonsense. The bums you see sleeping on the subways and in doorways, and/or spaneging around the city, are almost all some combination of drug addicted, alcoholic, and/or mentally ill. No matter how cheap housing is, they'd still be homeless, because they'd be spending nearly all of the money they scrounge on their substances.
There are functional homeless, but they're much less visible, because they find somewhere to go (shelters, friends, family, etc.). They don't end up in the publics' face.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BugsyPal
One reason for all this is simple; the cost of housing has skyrocketed in NYC over the past decade. You have fewer and fewer "cheap" apartments or areas where people used to be able to find some sort of housing. NYCHA, supportive and other City housing programs are stretched as well.
Most homeless folks in NYC today are making somewhere between $50-100/day from panhandling and even more from collecting benefits. Add to that they know what shelters or spots to spend the night. It's pretty simple life if you get over the dirtiness.
They sure make a lot more than some people busting their butts after tax.
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