The South Bronx (crime, co-op, loans)

[Hustla718]

Originally Posted by Guywithacause

Again, because I provide a more positive view on Mott Haven, it is hyping it up? If someone does not subscribe to your doom and gloom then they cannot possibly be speaking the truth? Is that what you would have us all believe? Your way, your view, and that's it? It's not possible to have a different perspective? Let's be reasonable.

If you look back on my posts you will never see that quote come from me, as the crux of my argument is exactly what you posted: " Although Mott Haven still suffers from many social ills, things are being done to improve the situation for the current residents. However, much more needs to be done to make this a desirable area. It is still a low income ghetto."

This is an about face from your typical doom and gloom of "what's the point it will never change" and "things are getting worse not better" and "it will never get better." Why the change in attitude?

I am glad that you can be more reasonable and say that the area is being improved. Unfortunately, we are now in agreement..but I am confident we will find other stuff to disagree about.

Your not offering a postive view on Mott Haven, you are lieing.

"Mott Haven is great! Yes it has it's problems but it's 1000 times better then it was!"

Is not a positive view, you are hyping it up. That is your post. I have read post from you ranging from that, to hyping all low income communities in the Bronx, to saying there is a zero risk of crime on Fordham Road (which other forumers really got on your for that). It's unacceptable.

Positive view would be as I posted.

"Although Mott Haven still suffers from many social ills, things are being done to improve the situation for the current residents. However, much more needs to be done to make this a desirable area. It is still a low income ghetto."

And a negative outlook would be.

"Although Mott Haven still suffers from many social ills, the little change is making little difference. However, much more needs to be done to make this a desirable area. It is still a low income ghetto. A place I do not see changing much at all"

Your post are more hype then postive. Positive post are acceptable, negative as well.

Hype is lies and misinformation.

[Guywithacause]

We are going in circles because:

1-I have never posted such a statment...look at my history.

2-You have never posted a reasonable statement that you are now asserting: Although Mott Haven still suffers from many social ills, things are being done to improve the situation for the current residents. However, much more needs to be done to make this a desirable area. It is still a low income ghetto." Had you ever posted this statement once, or even came close to it...we would be in agreement.

3-The negative quote: "Although Mott Haven still suffers from many social ills, the little change is making little difference. However, much more needs to be done to make this a desirable area. It is still a low income ghetto. A place I do not see changing much at all" is exactly your point of view, which is why you are called out as negative, doom and gloom, and unreasonable. Again, feel free to check back on posts.

My posts are balanced and fair, your posts are overwhelming negative and completely irrational. The post history does not lie.

[apvbguy]

Originally Posted by Guywithacause

Again, because I provide a more positive view on Mott Haven, it is hyping it up?

it all depends on your perspective, to a naive person whose only view of the world is places like melrose or to someone unfamiliar with urban issues those nice new buildings look so inviting, but to a person who is a bit more sophisticated has a little more street savvy or lives a more upscale life, looks at the complete picture of places like melrose and says nice new buildings in the middle of a dump.

lying to people, or to use your words "hyping the area' with a lot of bs about wonderful the place is is self serving at best and dangerous at the worst, and arguing with people who don't share your myopic, rosy vision of the place does you no good either, you're in fantasy land and he's dealing with reality.

I think we can agree that the southern bronx is a work in progress and it is far far away from being viable place to live.

[Guywithacause]

apvbguy...I could not agree with you more....the Bronx is a work in progress and far away from being a viable palce to live for the majority of people. Agreed. If only Hustla agreed as well....you cannot snap your fingers and solve problems, the area is being reclaimed on house at a time, one building at a time, one block at a time.....all I do is recognize the changes that are happenign without disregarding the obvious challenges that exist.

I may seem overly positive at times but it is to balance his overly pessimistic and negativity about the area. Reality is not saying that everything is crap, it will never change, all the improvements are a waste of time and money, and everyone should stay away...that is an unfair and wrong assessment...certianly not reality. How about you call him out on that instead of claiming I paint a rosey picture because I recognize the changes that are happening and the improvements being made?

[apvbguy]

Originally Posted by Guywithacause

apvbguy...I could not agree with you more....the Bronx is a work in progress and far away from being a viable palce to live for the majority of people. Agreed. If only Hustla agreed as well....you cannot snap your fingers and solve problems, the area is being reclaimed on house at a time, one building at a time, one block at a time.....all I do is recognize the changes that are happenign without disregarding the obvious challenges that exist.

I may seem overly positive at times but it is to balance his overly pessimistic and negativity about the area. Reality is not saying that everything is crap, it will never change, all the improvements are a waste of time and money, and everyone should stay away...that is an unfair and wrong assessment...certianly not reality. How about you call him out on that instead of claiming I paint a rosey picture because I recognize the changes that are happening and the improvements being made?

I am not calling him on what he posts because just about everything he posts is based on facts as he sees them, you on the other hand should have pom poms in your hands and be standing on the 3rd ave bridge leading the cheers for the bronx, your views of what the place is like today is just a tad too far of a stretch from reality.
A little less hype and a dose of reality would be more realistic

[Guywithacause]

Hmm..so his posts are based on facts as he sees them, but mine are not? I should be wearing pom poms because I have a different perspective ? Lol...you have said enough...your statements are unreasonable....I shall call you Hustla2!

[Hustla718]

Originally Posted by Guywithacause

We are going in circles because:

1-I have never posted such a statment...look at my history.

Oh yes you have. In fact here is another statement that disgusted me even more.

Originally Posted by Guywithacause

My neighborhood is very family oriented, with church being the glue that keeps everyone together. I walk down the street and say hi to friends and family....so overlal...I would say that Mott Haven is a decent palce to live.

You cannot be serious when you say that. Family oriented? What is it more, the terrilble schools or the broken families that gives you that idea? That neighborhood is not family oriented at all. That is one of the worst places you can raise a family.

Originally Posted by Guywithacause

2-You have never posted a reasonable statement that you are now asserting: Although Mott Haven still suffers from many social ills, things are being done to improve the situation for the current residents. However, much more needs to be done to make this a desirable area. It is still a low income ghetto." Had you ever posted this statement once, or even came close to it...we would be in agreement.

I have posted statements like below plenty of times before you came on this message board with your crusade of positive exaggeration.

I do feel some postive things are being done in the community however I also feel they are insignificant to the root problems that make Mott Haven what it is. A new park does not change a neighborhood, neither does more low income and lower middle class people in an area already poor. I do not see this area changing according to current housing trends and demographics. More of the same.

This opinion is based on fact there is no way around that.

I don't go saying, "oh wow has this area changed. It has some problems (you dont always mention this and downplay it) but I think it's great and coming up."

I tell it like it is. I don't start crying becuase a neighborhood I once lived in is the way it is. That's just reality.

Originally Posted by Guywithacause

3-The negative quote: "Although Mott Haven still suffers from many social ills, the little change is making little difference. However, much more needs to be done to make this a desirable area. It is still a low income ghetto. A place I do not see changing much at all" is exactly your point of view, which is why you are called out as negative, doom and gloom, and unreasonable. Again, feel free to check back on posts.

That negative post is very reasonable unlike the hype you deliver..

Is it true that Mott Haven suffers from many social ills? YES.

Is it true that the little change does little to nothing to solve the root problems? YES.

Does much more need to be done to make the area desireable? YES.

Is it still a low income ghetto. YES.

A place I do not see changing much at all. Read above and YES.

Originally Posted by Guywithacause

Hmm..so his posts are based on facts as he sees them, but mine are not? I should be wearing pom poms because I have a different perspective ? Lol...you have said enough...your statements are unreasonable....I shall call you Hustla2!

You bring WAY too much positiveity to the table. A lot of it is exaggration.

It is so obvious that area is undesireable but you hype as though it's Times Square.

Far from it. It's the ghetto. A normal person does not talk about undesireable areas the way you do. You hype it up.

What I state is facts.

Is it not a fact the South Bronx is poor.

Is it not a fact violent crime is not a problem in the South Bronx.

Is it not a fact the area is full of social problems.

Is it not a fact little to nothing is being done to solve these root problems.

And no, a new park does not help to solve the root problems.

The South Bronx is like a building getting renovated, only it's foundation is damaged. So this "repair" aka "building boom for low income housing" is adding more to a building already unstable. This will eventually lead to a "collapse", most likely in the form of disinvestment and more social problems.

Those root problems are too deep and no one in America has answer. Gentrification just moves these problems. Capitalism is not fair, but that's life. It takes a little luck and a drive to succeed from the pit of poverty. It's up to individuals. In these areas it can be VERY difficult.

[Elvira Black]

Hustla, you are now officially on my ignore list...I just coast thru your posts.

APVGuY:

What a humanitarian...a little of the old noblesse oblige, hmmmm>>>>

Who put you in charge of defending the poor innocents of the world?

Tell me, newcomers...do you think you're all hopeless rubes fresh off the pumpkin patch like this guy thinks? Please tell him how grateful you are for his wise and benevolent protection.

[thf415]

Originally Posted by Hustla718

Oh yes you have. In fact here is another statement that disgusted me even more.



You cannot be serious when you say that. Family oriented? What is it more, the terrilble schools or the broken families that gives you that idea? That neighborhood is not family oriented at all. That is one of the worst places you can raise a family.



I have posted statements like below plenty of times before you came on this message board with your crusade of positive exaggeration.

I do feel some postive things are being done in the community however I also feel they are insignificant to the root problems that make Mott Haven what it is. A new park does not change a neighborhood, neither does more low income and lower middle class people in an area already poor. I do not see this area changing according to current housing trends and demographics. More of the same.

This opinion is based on fact there is no way around that.

I don't go saying, "oh wow has this area changed. It has some problems (you dont always mention this and downplay it) but I think it's great and coming up."

I tell it like it is. I don't start crying becuase a neighborhood I once lived in is the way it is. That's just reality.



That negative post is very reasonable unlike the hype you deliver..

Is it true that Mott Haven suffers from many social ills? YES.

Is it true that the little change does little to nothing to solve the root problems? YES.

Does much more need to be done to make the area desireable? YES.

Is it still a low income ghetto. YES.

A place I do not see changing much at all. Read above and YES.



You bring WAY too much positiveity to the table. A lot of it is exaggration.

It is so obvious that area is undesireable but you hype as though it's Times Square.

Far from it. It's the ghetto. A normal person does not talk about undesireable areas the way you do. You hype it up.

What I state is facts.

Is it not a fact the South Bronx is poor.

Is it not a fact violent crime is not a problem in the South Bronx.

Is it not a fact the area is full of social problems.

Is it not a fact little to nothing is being done to solve these root problems.

And no, a new park does not help to solve the root problems.

The South Bronx is like a building getting renovated, only it's foundation is damaged. So this "repair" aka "building boom for low income housing" is adding more to a building already unstable. This will eventually lead to a "collapse", most likely in the form of disinvestment and more social problems.

When gentrification occurs, there is less low income housing. Also. it is important to remember that the vast majority of low income residents are law abiding citizens who don't commit serious crime. NYCHA actually has a very strict policy on crime and those who are found guilty even of minor crimes can be kicked out.

While there is still plenty of crime in the projects most of the time victims are known to their perpetrators and are often involved in illegal activities themeselves. Furthermore, while the physical condition of NYCHA buildings are not good, compared to projects in other cities (former ones in Chicago), they are far better. Just look at the outside of the buildings, you'll never see a broken window. The buildings are HEAVILY patrolled by the cops and troublemakers are brought to justice.

Those root problems are too deep and no one in America has answer. Gentrification just moves these problems. Capitalism is not fair, but that's life. It takes a little luck and a drive to succeed from the pit of poverty. It's up to individuals. In these areas it can be VERY difficult.

When gentrification occurs, there is less low income housing. Also. it is important to remember that the vast majority of low income residents are law abiding citizens who don't commit serious crime. NYCHA actually has a very strict policy on crime and those who are found guilty even of minor crimes can be kicked out.

While there is still plenty of crime in the projects most of the time victims are known to their perpetrators and are often involved in illegal activities themeselves. Furthermore, while the physical condition of NYCHA buildings are not good, compared to projects in other cities (former ones in Chicago), they are far better. Just look at the outside of the buildings, you'll never see a broken window. The buildings are HEAVILY patrolled by the cops and troublemakers are brought to justice.

Overall, the South Bronx is a very lively and unique place. Go to the HUB on any given afternoon and you will be riveted by how lively the area is. It simply is an experience you wont find anywhere else in America.

Laslty, no one ever said capitalism is perfect, but what other system has proven itself better. Communism, Socialism, a Dictatorship? Maybe we should be more like North Korea, at least they don't have ghettos like the South Bronx. Ask any immigrant in the South Bronx how their quality of life here compares to where they came from. You won't hear many complaints.

[Elvira Black]

thf415, I could just kiss you! Here's a virtual one....lol.

Anyone here interested in actively participating in some significant positive change rather than griping and doom and gloom and hopelessness should see my thread re: the Kingsbridge Armory rally taking place at noon tomorrow (Sat) and try to attend. DM me if you want to meet up there. The Kingsbridge Road Number 4 train takes you right to it; and the D will take you to Grand Concourse and Kingsbridge (a 5 minute walk away).

Please consider participating--this is a super important--nay, pivotal-- event and the media and political leaders will be there as well!!!!!

PS: Someone mentioned that they may be buying up some of the pj's and turning them into market value/luxe apts--did anyone start a thread on this? If so, let's start one!