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Old 10-26-2007, 09:18 AM
 
Location: Mott Haven
2,978 posts, read 815,661 times
Reputation: 209
THF I agree with your statements. The projects are FAR better than they used to be, with many hosting nicely manicured gardens in spring and summer, refurbished playgrounds, and upgraded infrastructure. Is it perfect? Heck no...but it has improved dramatically. I think I am done with addressing Hustla directly...it seems to be a waste of energy.

And I also agree that the areas within Mott Haven, Highbridge, Melrose, etc are very lively and bustling. The areas still need improvement (which area doesn't though) but the city, developers, and residents are addressing them and they are making profound changes. Will it happen over night...nope...but it is happening. I am enjoying the new changes..especially the 2 new rite-aids that opened right by me....it's a simple amenity but it is great!

ELvira: I dunno about the rumor of the projects being sold off. It seems unlikely seeing as there was such immense opposition the big purchase in Brooklyn of that affordable housing community (can't remember the name..but it is like Co-op city in the Bronx.) I think the city should sell off all its property to the free market and free itself of this monumental, bureaucratic burden, but I don't see that happening within the next 3-5 years. HOWEVER, they might be going towards an income-restricted co-op in order to accomplish the goals of freeing the city from owning the buildings, as well as providing ownership to tens of thousands that would otherwise never share in the wealth of the city or the nation.

I think I too am done with addressing Hustla directly, however I will continue to be active and assert my views on teh boards. And Elvira....don't get all flustered with Briarwood...its not worth taking things personal.
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Old 10-29-2007, 02:32 AM
 
1,536 posts, read 107,391 times
Reputation: -80
Quote:
Originally Posted by thf415 View Post
When gentrification occurs, there is less low income housing. Also. it is important to remember that the vast majority of low income residents are law abiding citizens who don't commit serious crime. NYCHA actually has a very strict policy on crime and those who are found guilty even of minor crimes can be kicked out.
Gentrification in the areas we are describing? Uh no.

BTW, yes you can get into PJ's with a criminal record. There are ways around the rules and it is much easier and much more common then people think.

Quote:
Originally Posted by thf415 View Post
While there is still plenty of crime in the projects most of the time victims are known to their perpetrators and are often involved in illegal activities themeselves. Furthermore, while the physical condition of NYCHA buildings are not good, compared to projects in other cities (former ones in Chicago), they are far better. Just look at the outside of the buildings, you'll never see a broken window. The buildings are HEAVILY patrolled by the cops and troublemakers are brought to justice.
There is a lot of crime in the PJ"s and most crimes are random. Auto theft, vandalism, larceny, larceny from auto, grand larceny, pickpocketing, burglary, robbery, even random assualts. Murders are often over disputes, and in these areas you can get into a dispute with someone random very easily. Murders are the end product of an escalating situation or someone who just flips out and lights someone up. The ghetto is full of *******s trying to make a name for themselves.

As for broken windows, plenty of developments have a good number of vacant apartments with broken windows, padlocked closed, some open. There are also those occupied apartments with broken windows that take weeks, sometimes months, to repair. So much for good management...

And cops heavily patrolling the PJ's, you can't be serious... PJ's face serious neglect in terms of policing since only housing cops partrol them on foot and the buildings get no pass through traffic from precinct patrol cars. You might have 2 cops to a building once and a while, that's 2 cops per 2-4 thousand people, multiple jobs and a need for constant patrol. Once in a while housing will do a verticle or stand in the lobbies and lock the door (if it locks). Same goes for the low income neighborhoods overall as there is a police shortage. More important then anything is giving summons.

Quote:
Originally Posted by thf415 View Post
Overall, the South Bronx is a very lively and unique place. Go to the HUB on any given afternoon and you will be riveted by how lively the area is. It simply is an experience you wont find anywhere else in America.
Reminds me of any other retail strip in the ghetto.

Quote:
Originally Posted by thf415 View Post
Laslty, no one ever said capitalism is perfect, but what other system has proven itself better. Communism, Socialism, a Dictatorship? Maybe we should be more like North Korea, at least they don't have ghettos like the South Bronx. Ask any immigrant in the South Bronx how their quality of life here compares to where they came from. You won't hear many complaints.
Who was comparing, the fact is under capitilism there will always be poor in every city. Always be those who do not make it. The South Bronx looks to be the home of the poor in NYC for a very long time now.

BTW, immgrants don't come to the South Bronx and like it. They just deal with it becuase in America they may have more opportunity then the place they came. A chance to live in a good area one day or at least their children.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Elvira Black View Post
PS: Someone mentioned that they may be buying up some of the pj's and turning them into market value/luxe apts--did anyone start a thread on this? If so, let's start one!
In wealthy areas to displace the low income population to the ghettos of the city where NYCHA will be rebuilt. Thread is already started.

Of course that is only an idea.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Guywithacause View Post
THF I agree with your statements. The projects are FAR better than they used to be, with many hosting nicely manicured gardens in spring and summer, refurbished playgrounds, and upgraded infrastructure. Is it perfect? Heck no...but it has improved dramatically. I think I am done with addressing Hustla directly...it seems to be a waste of energy.
I see that in housing programs all over the country. That does not mean the PJ's are any better then they were. They still have virtually all the problems they always have had. Now only the grounds are kept a little nicer and they have some more lighting along the paths compared to the 1970's.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Guywithacause View Post
ELvira: I dunno about the rumor of the projects being sold off. It seems unlikely seeing as there was such immense opposition the big purchase in Brooklyn of that affordable housing community (can't remember the name..but it is like Co-op city in the Bronx.) I think the city should sell off all its property to the free market and free itself of this monumental, bureaucratic burden, but I don't see that happening within the next 3-5 years. HOWEVER, they might be going towards an income-restricted co-op in order to accomplish the goals of freeing the city from owning the buildings, as well as providing ownership to tens of thousands that would otherwise never share in the wealth of the city or the nation.
So you want the city to sell all it's affordable housing to be market rate. You honestly do not care about your community in the end you do just want to make money. Most of the people in your community live in city housing...
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Old 10-29-2007, 07:47 AM
 
Location: Mott Haven
2,978 posts, read 815,661 times
Reputation: 209
THF: I agree that Capitalism is the best way, however it is certianly not perfect. If money were not the primary motive for much of this society, we would not have such an abysmal, entrenched ghettoized culture that has infiltrated much of our society. Of course, I do not believe we would also have the dynamic economy, superior innovation, and be the super power of the world were we not so darn greedy either...alot of good has come from it also....so there are 2 sides.

I think there is a new focus on the inner city, and a new preception of these communities as well. I think the city has learned from its mistakes, at least this administration has, and is trying to bring back the Bronx, as well as the other Boroughs, through investments in private and public ventures....and I see it paying off in spades whenever I walk to the train, or shop at new local stores, or supermarkets, or the new housing all around. The areas are far more liveable than they have been in the last 35 years...and I am glad to be a part of the revitalization of these communities. It certianly is far from perfect...but there are now community members, activists, and the city actively involved with improving the areas...and with the funds to back their proposals..the changes are having a dramatic impact!

I look forward to all the changes and development that will come to fruition in the next 5 years in this borough!
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Old 10-29-2007, 11:37 AM
 
Location: Confines of the 100 Precinct
9,860 posts, read 17,445,608 times
Reputation: 3523
wow its really clear who has and lacks common sense by reading these posts....

to the guy who lives in "mott haven": don't you think that since you and your family spent so much time there, that you may be a little biased in your opinions of "mott haven" and therefore maybe some of the issues the neighborhood has goes overlooked by you? i live in far rockaway and my neighborhood is changing too, but right now its still the hood. if anybody was curious about living out here, all i have to say is i been out here my whole life, i feel safe, but its the hood. come see for yourself and decide if you would be comfortable.

a couple new buildings isnt gonna solve the problems of the south bronx.....too much low income housing and other undesirable city services in that neighborhood that people with money dont wanna live next to. it would take major displacement of low income residents in the end for the south bronx to have a remote shot at becoming a middle class neighborhood....and then where are all those people gonna go? they'll get dumped on another neighborhood. why do you think most of williamsburg got gentrified so quickly? very few public housing/programs. and back in the early '90's bedford ave was the worst stop to get off on the L. but the south bronx has too much. look at millbrook. how about i knock those projects down.....now where am i putting these people? dump them somewhere else. dont get me wrong if "sobro" turns to roses hey i'm all for it. i just dont see it happening. feel free to inform us of the 12 step plan for the south bronx's gentrification if you have one.
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Old 10-29-2007, 11:57 AM
 
Location: Mott Haven
2,978 posts, read 815,661 times
Reputation: 209
Agreed 7thfloor....there is no doubt I am biased and I do not hide that fact, which is why I do say that you should see for yourself and not listen to much of the doom and gloom that some claim is the only correct and true perspective of these areas.

I am also not claiming things are rosey, perfect, and idyllic....my posts have never painted that picture and I have never asserted that. I say things are changing, and the hurdles that exist are being addressed, whereas before they were ignored and left to fester. I make no claims other than that...and my post history will show them.

I too do not see SoBro as becoming a gentrified paradise of Starbucks and Gucci stores in the next 5 years, and no rational or reasonable person suggests that to be the case. But what I do see is an increasingly attractive area that is affordable, close to the city/easy commute, with a strictly urban feel that is improving, and becoming a viable choice for those looking to stay in the city and live cheaply and close.

I stand by all of those assertions. And of course I am biased, but I do not pretend that the hurdles don't exist...however I choose to focus on things that are improving and the more positive aspects instead of rehashing the same old story.
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Old 10-29-2007, 12:00 PM
 
Location: Confines of the 100 Precinct
9,860 posts, read 17,445,608 times
Reputation: 3523
Quote:
Originally Posted by Guywithacause View Post
Agreed 7thfloor....there is no doubt I am biased and I do not hide that fact, which is why I do say that you should see for yourself and not listen to much of the doom and gloom that some claim is the only correct and true perspective of these areas.

I am also not claiming things are rosey, perfect, and idyllic....my posts have never painted that picture and I have never asserted that. I say things are changing, and the hurdles that exist are being addressed, whereas before they were ignored and left to fester. I make no claims other than that...and my post history will show them.

I too do not see SoBro as becoming a gentrified paradise of Starbucks and Gucci stores in the next 5 years, and no rational or reasonable person suggests that to be the case. But what I do see is an increasingly attractive area that is affordable, close to the city/easy commute, with a strictly urban feel that is improving, and becoming a viable choice for those looking to stay in the city and live cheaply and close.

I stand by all of those assertions. And of course I am biased, but I do not pretend that the hurdles don't exist...however I choose to focus on things that are improving and the more positive aspects instead of rehashing the same old story.
you should owe it to the posters on this board and yourself to address the good and the bad.....
the only thing that i agree on is that its close to the city. like i say, it takes more than a few people with pre-approved loans to change the dynamic of a neighborhood. especially one with tons of low-income housing.
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Old 10-29-2007, 12:11 PM
 
Location: Mott Haven
2,978 posts, read 815,661 times
Reputation: 209
If there were nobody else addressing the negatives I would most certianly do so as well, however there are a number of people who go to great lengths at only addressing the negatives..so we do not need a chorus of people chanting the same old routine.

I am giving the perspective that is not as common, voiced, or even popular, however it is just as "real" as the other posters. I do not ignore the obvious challenges of these communities, however I am voicing a different side. I am fair and balanced, I cannot say the same for others on here.
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Old 10-29-2007, 12:17 PM
 
974 posts, read 2,372,736 times
Reputation: 466
Quote:
Originally Posted by Guywithacause View Post
If there were nobody else addressing the negatives I would most certianly do so as well, however there are a number of people who go to great lengths at only addressing the negatives..so we do not need a chorus of people chanting the same old routine.

I am giving the perspective that is not as common, voiced, or even popular, however it is just as "real" as the other posters. I do not ignore the obvious challenges of these communities, however I am voicing a different side. I am fair and balanced, I cannot say the same for others on here.
I agree with your comments. There are already alot of negative people on this board. So a good job to you Guywithacause for talking about the positive South Bronx that people don't hear too much about. It can't be all that super negative there.
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Old 10-29-2007, 12:23 PM
 
Location: Mott Haven
2,978 posts, read 815,661 times
Reputation: 209
Cyrus..it's not that it can't be all that negative here...because it can. However, if all you choose to see, feel, and regurgitate is the negative..then that is all anyone will ever hear and see...and that is not an accurate assessment of the community.

There are many positive things, and I have spoken of some. It is important to be balanced when discussing places, and not just focus on the negative or positive. However, I also recognize that one man's garbage is another man's treasure....I have learned that first hand in seeing the renewed interest in areas that were formerly "off-limits." I don't see the value in buy a comic book for $25,000, but there are many that do, and are paying far more than that. The same holds true for these types of communties, whereas many do not see the value, there are many that do, and are placing their bets. Is it for everyone? Heck no...neither is paying $25,000 for a comic book. But that does not mean others don't see the value, so writing off a whole community as "off-limits" has not only proven a detrimental social policy, it is also just plain foolish economically and financially....but that's changing.
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Old 10-29-2007, 04:45 PM
 
Location: Confines of the 100 Precinct
9,860 posts, read 17,445,608 times
Reputation: 3523
i feel that by not addressing the negatives you're using a "sweeping the dirt under the carpet" tactic.
if someone asks me my opinion of where i live, i would illustrate all good and bad points.
if i asked you about the south bronx, why would you leave the bad things out and only talk about the good?
if the negative points of the south bronx arent addressed, then they will never be dealt with. so you as a resident should actually make your voice heard on all issues instead of just the positive ones. maybe one day the right person will hear you and make a change. but simply not addressing all points period about the neighborhood seems ridiculous and a little naive to me.
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