Advice/input needed: Relocating family of 5 to Manhattan (lease, brokers)
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Most familys making 150k live in the outer boroughs or suburbs because its in the best interest of their children. Only the wealthy can live in the UES/UWS with that many kids. With 1 infant its possible, but not 3 kids. 150k is not considered wealthy in manhattan. OP is convinced she can give her kids a quality life in the city at that income range because she deserves the "city life." She is rationalizing everything. But this is america, she is free to do whatever she wants. When you have kids, they should always come first. This became obviously clear to me when my son was recently born, and although I can easily afford living in the city, I can see why people opt for the suburbs which I am contemplating.
You are just full of assumptions, aren't you dumbo?
Was this needed? What an ignorant statement to make. You have no clue about my life, and just because I stay at home with my children does not make me "bored". You don't know a thing about me or my family.
If you think this is a pointless thread, please move on.
You are just full of assumptions, aren't you dumbo?
Listen, if your intent to move was so your husband can have an easy commute to spend more time with your family, then moving to Jersey is the obvious choice, as others have advised. You don't want to hear it because you seem too have some void in your life you need filled, and you are convinced moving to city will fullfill you. We are just trying to knock some sense into you. Take it from those who live here in the city.
So because I don't plan on shoving my kids into various activities because it's just what everyone does, I am not factoring my kids into this? I don't plan on doing all of the extraneous activities here either. Like I said it's not the type of parent I am. I think this overscheduling johnny and Jane phenomena is relatively new. Parents are pressured to do more with their children and spend more on their children than ever before.
That's not to say if one is very interested or gifted in something that I'll tell them no. We'll see what happens when we get there. Its too early to speculate this kind of thing.
And bored in NYC? That's laughable. There are plenty of things to do there that don't require monthly fees.
I don't think you are getting what I'm saying. Forget money. You have 3 kids, 3 different ages. They will be doing different things, at different places, because of their age gap. In NYC, that will take its toll on you, and that's a big part of what drives many inner city parents to suburbia.
Of course, there are plenty of juvenile detention facilities, which are free (your taxes pay for them). They are chock full of kids whose parents don't want to be over-burdened.
Listen, if your intent to move was so your husband can have an easy commute to spend more time with your family, then moving to Jersey is the obvious choice, as others have advised. You don't want to hear it because you seem too have some void in your life you need filled, and you are convinced moving to city will fullfill you. We are just trying to knock some sense into you. Take it from those who live here in the city.
I'm joining the chorus telling you that you're underestimating how expensive Manhattan is compared to the suburbs. Heck, if I'm not mistaken you may be close to qualifying for Mitchell-Lama middle income housing (you'd never get it - just pointing out the difference in perspective from the suburbs, where your family is probably fairly well off, to here).
First, re-read bmwguy's comment about 2 bedroom apartments. He's right. It just won't work with 3 kids. Thus, your housing budget is thousands too optimistic, in my view, unless you want to live in Harlem (which of course doesn't work for schools). Also, an unexpected challenge my wife and I have had is stuff. People have stuff. Kids have more stuff than most people. Manhattan/prime Brooklyn apartments do not have a lot of space for stuff. The result is a total disaster.
Second, as someone else has mentioned, taxes are much higher in the city.
Third, everything else is more expensive in the city in a hard-to-quantify way. Put it this way; we have one child and a higher HHI, and even though we can afford to stay here, I'm trying to figure out how to go somewhere where my income can give us a better, more comfortable life. We definitely feel pinched in a way that would sound completely insane to someone not used to New York City pricing.
With 3 kids, there would be no question about figuring out anything. We'd be gone unless my income could support a real 3 or 4 bedroom (2 baths) and all the other attendant costs of 3 kids.
I really don't think you will be able to afford an apartment in a decent area or with the space you need in the locations that you are looking into and if you are finding things, I'm assuming they aren't in the best of areas in Manhattan. I think a two bedroom is going to be VERY small for two adults and three children. And really, $140K does not go far. Comparably, my husband and I make less than you but have no children---if we made $140K (and bonuses might not even matter to places you're trying to rent from because they aren't considered guaranteed income) I still think we would have a difficult time finding a one-bedroom in the same places you are looking at and live comfortably. I think it would be a major strain in the finances department.
I think you missed Monty Brewster's point, which he/she tried to emphasize again. You do not have to send your kids to five hundred different activities. The point was that you may or may not get into your zoned schools and even if you do, if your kids are different ages, you will be running around to drop them off, pick them up and whatever else you need to do possibly at different times depending on the time schedule of the school they attend. Now imagine your kids don't get into the zoned schools and you are running around everywhere. (HS doesn't matter for this point because there are no longer zoned high schools.) Listen, I have experienced how awful some of these schools are---the good ones are good but if you don't get into them, the bad ones are bad---not only in terms of behavior but how much lower standards are in certain schools.
If you refuse to even consider Jersey City, I would say look into the outer boroughs. Depending on where you choose to live, the commute may be the same or slightly longer. I don't know why all of these are completely off of the table.
BTW-You say you don't want to be even further from CT but if I drive from where I live in NYC to JC it takes me 15-20 minutes. JC is not that far---it is a VERY short commute into the city. Really, it's RIGHT there. So it would not tack on that much time if you wanted to travel back to CT once a month.
I'm not sure what you want to hear. But you are hearing the honest, albeit snarky advice from some people, about your situation. Is there a possibility that you will find what you are looking for? Maybe, but it's somewhat doubtful. Is your QOL really going to improve? I don't think that's a given. If you are looking for everyone to agree with you and tell you your plan is wonderful, that's not going to happen. I think you need to be a little more flexible if you genuinely want to move. You might have lived in other cities before you but you are getting advice about THIS city from people who live here and know the real costs.
The OP doesn't appear to have made any real statements about city living, and I think some posters are demonizing her assuming she has to live in a certain neighborhood, etc.
First off, I'd consider the givens.
If your husband will be working in Jersey City, and schools and commute are of some concern, plus you wish to get rid of your car you are absolutely limited to Manhattan below 96th street and Staten Island.
You have 3 kids, so you need at LEAST a 3 bedroom apartment with 2 bathrooms. Anything less than that will be crippling to everyones lifestyle by two years as the kids grow older.
There are plenty of free and decent activities a good mom can do with her children in New York City, but you still need to factor in some money now and again if your children are so much as interested in activities like sports, dance, arts/crafts, etc.
You mentioned somewhere $80 a month in subway passes.
Just for the record, unless you live by the PATH station (the NJ subway that goes to Jersey City) you'll need two MetroCard swipes daily ($84 with high volume discount based on 20 works day a month) and two PATH swipes daily ($68 based on same 20 work days a month).
This is over $150 just to commute to and from work- though for about 20 dollars more you can add an unlimited MetroCard for weekend city trips.
Just crunching the numbers though, realistically- you can't afford something decent in Manhattan.
Hoboken and Jersey City have some great urban areas you can live in that are incredibly close to Manhattan and probably more sensible because they'd cut your husbands commute time to next to nothing... but you'd have to look carefully at what schools are best in the area.
Staten Island would be a good place to look as well, as it is radically more affordable, has good schools for the kids, BUT would likely require you to keep your car while maintaining the ridiculously high NYC taxes.
They'll miss out on what? I think way too much emphasis is put on these expensive, unaffordable activities that you keep alluding to. There are activities and social events that are cheaper or even free.
Quote:
Originally Posted by reluctant_suburbanite
So because I don't plan on shoving my kids into various activities because it's just what everyone does, I am not factoring my kids into this? I don't plan on doing all of the extraneous activities here either. Like I said it's not the type of parent I am. I think this overscheduling johnny and Jane phenomena is relatively new. Parents are pressured to do more with their children and spend more on their children than ever before.
That's not to say if one is very interested or gifted in something that I'll tell them no. We'll see what happens when we get there. Its too early to speculate this kind of thing.
Having a children in an activity isn't overscheduling them. Having them in too many time consuming activities at once is overscheduling them.
My children are grown, young adults now. When I look back at their childhoods and the adults they have become, the activities contributed more towards their development than school ever did.
What will they miss? They'll miss an opportunity to explore thier talents and interests. You can't identify your children's gifts if they aren't exposed to different things. You'd be amazed the positive impact activities have on children's lives.
My adult son's chosen career is directly linked to an activity he tried when he was a young teen. It was a huge committment on my part that year. I drove him 1-1/2 hours each way on Saturday and Sunday -- 6 hours each day because it was too long for me to stay there since he started at 8am and wasn't done until after 10pm. It was just for a few months one year, but the exposure for those brief months ultimately inspired his career choice years later.
He has a career he LOVES. Few people are blessed to be doing something they truly enjoy and are passionate about. He has fun every day and gets paid incredible money too.
Free activities take your time too. Scouts comes to mind. Those years in scouts contributed to my son's ability to dare to chose a unique career and move around the country as a young adult. So it was a combination of activities that helped him chose his career. Parents can't teach the leadership and self reliance skills learned in scouts. The weekly meetings are free, the camping trips are minimal but do get more expensive when they are teens. Sailing the Florida Keys, climbing mountains in New Mexico, and canoing in Canada are just a few of the more expensive trips he took. They were a bargain even though the most expensive cost $700 per trip. I sure can't take a three week trip for $700.
My children each took music lessons, participated in scouts, and were involved in one additional activity at a time. That meant that they might have been in 3 additional different activities per year. We weren't overscheduled. They were only doing one thing per day, but not every day, for an hour or two.
As parents, we all start out with ideals about parenting that evolve as our children grow. We're merely warning you that it would be wise to take these things into consideration. Keep your options open when planning your budget. If it turns out that you were right, you will have more money to put towards retirement or college funds.
I don't think you are getting what I'm saying. Forget money. You have 3 kids, 3 different ages. They will be doing different things, at different places, because of their age gap. In NYC, that will take its toll on you, and that's a big part of what drives many inner city parents to suburbia.
Exactly! Even if the activities are free, the logistics of having three children doing different things will be more challenging in Manhattan.
Quote:
Originally Posted by 85Dumbo
You don't want to hear it because you seem too have some void in your life you need filled, and you are convinced moving to city will fullfill you.
Happiness truly comes from within.
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