How safe is Flatbush? (Florida: rent, low crime, neighborhoods)

[Elvira Black]

Have bad things happened to your friends there in the recent past? And if so, do they frequent the streets late at night?

I notice that you lived in Brooklyn but now live in Westchester.

But I certainly am no expert on Brooklyn, so yes, one would have to check it out for oneself.

[Elvira Black]

Here's a very informative article on Flatbush Gardens:

A Once-Troubled Housing Complex Seeks Change - March 15, 2007 - The New York Sun

[SgtAJC]

The area is bad, real bad in fact. I know, I've been in the area and am very familiar with it. Please do your research before making and quick decisions. Take a look at the crime rate in the 67 Precinct. Go to NYPD.org and punch up the crime stats. There are parts of the 67 tougher than this area but not too many. Punch up the 70 Pct and 71 Pct to see what surrounding precincts are also like. They can make the apartments as nice as they want....if you can't come in at night, or go shopping in the neighborhood, none of that matters. It looks as though they are trying to clean up the development but I wouldn't be the first to commit to a development that has an EXTREMELY troubled past.

[Elvira Black]

Once again, it may be prudent to keep in mind the context/background of each individual poster on these forums. SgtAJC has just moved to Florida from NYC, which from what I've heard is hardly a paradise either. Some NYC "refugees" are dissatisfied with or actively disgruntled with NYC living, so their viewpoint may be skewed to some degree.

Again, if you check out the link provided in my post above (the article in the NY Sun), it provides details on the history of this development, which apparently went from truly horrific to (per this article) close to crime free. There is full time security, utilities are supposely included, it is rent stabilized, and I believe at least some of the surrounding areas are considered fairly prime. If this is in East Flatbush rather than Flatbush proper, it might be a bit more dicey, but I don't claim to know much about Brooklyn housing. Some of the neighboring residents may not welcome the newcomers with open arms, so some tension may be possible, at least for awhile. Again, I don't know, but I am speaking from the perspective of a native NY'er with 50 years of living in three out of the five boroughs. IMO much of Manhattan was much more hazardous back in the day (think 70s and 80s, etc, pre Giuliani) than most parts of the present day Bronx (which I now live in--and not in one of the "prime" areas either.)

As I say, if you haven't been to an area very recently, or just passed through it, your assessment may be out of date. Sure, not every NYC area will undergo massive gentrification, but one would have to decide what seems right for them, no one else. Waiting for an area to become more completely gentrified will generally mean that you will miss out--either the vacancies will be filled, and/or the prices in the area will rise beyond your means.

I have a sneaking suspicion that it may be hard to find remaining available units now anyway, but again, one would have to contact them. One thing is for sure--they are only interested in financially qualified, stable, law abiding tenants. Whether any of the old tenants remain, I don't know.

It is always a good idea IMO to thoroughly research any major endeavor, including where to live or relocate. This forum is one source of info, but using it as a sole indicator of the best places to live in NOW is, IMO, not the wisest choice to make.

I understand that many posters don't want to feel "responsible" for "steering" newcomers into potentially untenable situations, and sometimes overcompensate for the "culture shock" they feel folks will experience. But sometimes the warnings are so dire (and IMO exaggerated) that they in effect scare folks off from an area, which in turn may also delay further development.

As I've said before, I have very mixed feelings about some of the things going on which will likely push many poor people out of the city altogether. But this may be a good opporunity to get into a number of formerly or potentially desirable neighborhoods. If one can get a balanced, more accurate assessments of the actual day to day dangers of these areas, (which in some case can vary greatly even block by block due to the major transitions taking place all over the city), IMO one can make a more informed, dispassionate choice. Many simply do not have the means to live "decently" in now gentrified areas, esp the hordes of young people willing and eager to come to NYC despite the many challenges this may entail. If you can't afford an area, you can't afford it--end of story.

[scatman]

Flatbush Gardens is going in the right place. in a couple of years, It's a wrap!

....actually, in the neighborhood, it's already a wrap! I saw a house a few blocks south on E. 32 between Glenwood and Ave H for $749K. A Target Mall is on the way at Flatbush and H.

"Here comes the neighborhood."
--Chris Rock

[Alan B 718]

i almost got an apartment at flatbush gardens 3 years ago. i live only a few blocks away now. There was a huuuuge push to gentrify that complex, but when i went, there were just waaay too many of the original inhabitants. The elevators smelled like pee, and the common areas were just nasty.

The apartments themselves were really nice, all re-done, all the utilities were included which was great, but the buildings themselves and the surrounding neighborhood were just not up to snuff. The apartments were COZY(small) to say the least. i saw the 2 and 3 bedroom floor plans. i dont recall if they had on premises parking.

they REALLY tried to get me in there and the management lady was very very upfront. her exact words were... "We are trying to get middle class white people in here, but they just wont come." they definitely needed some pioneers 3 years ago, and i dont know if they got them or just more low/middle-class blacks.

Now that area in general as i stated in previous posts, is a very(all) black area and is not considered safe by white people standards. its really odd, since all the side streets have single/two family homes all worth over 600k, but its simply because its nyc. for the most part, the houses are nothing special, 30x75 plots and some are unkempt, but the area screams working middleclass. The problem is, when you go on the street, the area screams "RUN!!". Lots of low-lifes and wanna-be's on every corner.

Just like any other shopping strip in brooklyn, you will see all the prevalent groups out and about during the day. no one will bother you during the daytime while shopping or eating. (lots of good eats there as well.. mmmm curry). The train stations along that line are all pretty desolate when its not rush hour. If you will routinely be coming home late (after 10pm) you may have some issues, especially in the warmer weather.

Now, given the opportunity to BUY an apartment and not just rent it, i would definitely get one if the price was right and i could afford it. I do believe that area is going to be incredibly valuable in 2 years.
1- new target mall going up 4 blocks away. due to complete by summer of '08
2- train station to manhattan 2 blocks away. it really is 25 min to downtown.
3- new Nets stadium will be on that same train line and is 10 minutes away.
4- general HOUSE stock is currently 600-900k for a crappy house. The really big houses in the area are prolly well over 1.3 mil if anyone is even selling them.

let me know if you need more help

[Elvira Black]

Great stuff, AlanB--now THAT's what I'm talkin' about!

PS--wouldn't be surprised if developments like Flatbush Gardens do eventually go coop.

[SeventhFloor]

Originally Posted by Elvira Black

Once again, it may be prudent to keep in mind the context/background of each individual poster on these forums. SgtAJC has just moved to Florida from NYC, which from what I've heard is hardly a paradise either. Some NYC "refugees" are dissatisfied with or actively disgruntled with NYC living, so their viewpoint may be skewed to some degree.

Again, if you check out the link provided in my post above (the article in the NY Sun), it provides details on the history of this development, which apparently went from truly horrific to (per this article) close to crime free. There is full time security, utilities are supposely included, it is rent stabilized, and I believe at least some of the surrounding areas are considered fairly prime. If this is in East Flatbush rather than Flatbush proper, it might be a bit more dicey, but I don't claim to know much about Brooklyn housing. Some of the neighboring residents may not welcome the newcomers with open arms, so some tension may be possible, at least for awhile. Again, I don't know, but I am speaking from the perspective of a native NY'er with 50 years of living in three out of the five boroughs. IMO much of Manhattan was much more hazardous back in the day (think 70s and 80s, etc, pre Giuliani) than most parts of the present day Bronx (which I now live in--and not in one of the "prime" areas either.)

As I say, if you haven't been to an area very recently, or just passed through it, your assessment may be out of date. Sure, not every NYC area will undergo massive gentrification, but one would have to decide what seems right for them, no one else. Waiting for an area to become more completely gentrified will generally mean that you will miss out--either the vacancies will be filled, and/or the prices in the area will rise beyond your means.

I have a sneaking suspicion that it may be hard to find remaining available units now anyway, but again, one would have to contact them. One thing is for sure--they are only interested in financially qualified, stable, law abiding tenants. Whether any of the old tenants remain, I don't know.

It is always a good idea IMO to thoroughly research any major endeavor, including where to live or relocate. This forum is one source of info, but using it as a sole indicator of the best places to live in NOW is, IMO, not the wisest choice to make.

I understand that many posters don't want to feel "responsible" for "steering" newcomers into potentially untenable situations, and sometimes overcompensate for the "culture shock" they feel folks will experience. But sometimes the warnings are so dire (and IMO exaggerated) that they in effect scare folks off from an area, which in turn may also delay further development.

As I've said before, I have very mixed feelings about some of the things going on which will likely push many poor people out of the city altogether. But this may be a good opporunity to get into a number of formerly or potentially desirable neighborhoods. If one can get a balanced, more accurate assessments of the actual day to day dangers of these areas, (which in some case can vary greatly even block by block due to the major transitions taking place all over the city), IMO one can make a more informed, dispassionate choice. Many simply do not have the means to live "decently" in now gentrified areas, esp the hordes of young people willing and eager to come to NYC despite the many challenges this may entail. If you can't afford an area, you can't afford it--end of story.

at the end of the day, all you're saying is if its not in manhattan then go buy it. maybe people should not be coming on here to ask us questions then when they can just go ahead and check these places out for themselves because at the end of the day they're just getting another person's opinion. i may go tell somebody the south bronx is bad and then they go there and they may think its the best thing since apple pie. its all up to the individual at the end of the day, so why bother?

[Elvira Black]

Originally Posted by SeventhFloor

at the end of the day, all you're saying is if its not in manhattan then go buy it. maybe people should not be coming on here to ask us questions then when they can just go ahead and check these places out for themselves because at the end of the day they're just getting another person's opinion. i may go tell somebody the south bronx is bad and then they go there and they may think its the best thing since apple pie. its all up to the individual at the end of the day, so why bother?

I don't get what you mean by I'm saying "if it's not in manhattan then go buy it?" Huh? Please to explain...

Obviously someone researching from out of town will not be able to check anything out until they arrive, but at least they will have an idea of what to expect in terms of price and neighborhood before they get here. You cannot get a totally accurate reading just from perusing the real estate listings. There are often many inaccuracies and misrepresentations therein.

Many many posters ask the same questions repeatedly--where can I find a "safe, affordable" neighborhood? Well, define safe, and define affordable--and then factor in an often miniscule budget for NYC and how much travel time they can reasonably stand to get into Manhattan every day.

As I said, I think it is prudent to make an informed choice based on many other factors than just the personal opinions of those on this forum. If one has an internet connection, IMO there is little good excuse not to take advantage of the MYRIAD resources available to you. The more information, the more sides of a situation you have to assess. The more pros and cons you can sort through, the more likely it is that you can decide what you, personally, are prepared to sacrifice to live here. It is almost always a tradeoff of some kind--even the weatlhy have their problems in this city in terms of location, believe it or not.

Why bother? Because finding a safe, affordable area on a post-college or othewise restricted budget is going to be quite a tall order. Recommending only areas that are way out of an OP's price range will not likely help them much. Some--most--will not be deterred by those who discourage them from moving here. They will just have to find out for themselves, as best they can, before and after they arrive.

These posts are only opinions, and by definition there will be differing opinions rather than hard and fast "facts" and statistics (which also change rapidly). I maintain that checking out previous posts by anyone commenting will help an OP to determine how "reliable" they find the source to be. Or at the very least, they can take each differing opinion and come to whatever conclusions they may draw from that. If they are deterred from coming here by a few "pessimistic" (or realistic) posts, perhaps they really should "not bother," as you said. Some people are simply not cut out for the trade offs and sacrifices and struggle it generally takes to live and work here.

[dma1250]

I used to live pretty close to the area in question, but my comments are based on my freinds' current experiencethere and my recent visits. And the implication that I'm anti-Brooklyn is absurb. I was born and raised there and think that many parts of it are great. The fact that I wanted a different life doesn't mean that I think it is a bad place for all. I often encourage people to look in many parts of Brooklyn.

As for this particular stretch of Flatbusn, as I said I persoanaly wouldn't want to live there and based on the OP's comments I doubt that she would. Since she is looking for a short-term rental, the long-term chances for the area are irrelevant.