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Old 11-27-2012, 12:23 AM
 
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I was curious as the densest census tract in the United States. The tract was less than 38 acres at 325 ppl/acre and was a place called LeFrak City in Queens. Has anyone ever been there? It was built in the 1960's and consists of 20 buildings (16 stories apiece). It is near the intersection of I495 and Queen's Blvd.

The plan is to exceed this density at Barclay's Center in Brooklyn. The resultant complex will probably have the highest density in the world (depending on how you measure it).

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Old 11-27-2012, 12:27 AM
 
Location: On the Rails in Northern NJ
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Its not , guttenberg NJ is the denest city in the US and world.
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Old 11-27-2012, 01:14 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Nexis4Jersey View Post
Its not , guttenberg NJ is the denest city in the US and world.
He made it pretty clear that he was referring to a census tracts. Guttenburg, NJ is dense, but there are plenty of neighborhoods in the primary 4 boroughs that are as dense or more so.

Although Lefrak City is very dense by any standard, I doubt it is the densest concentration of residencies in the city or country. My guess would be like a section of the Upper East Side. The Upper West Side, Greater Harlem, Washington Heights/Inwood, the Grand Concourse neighborhoods and the Canal Street/14th Street neighborhoods are up there city/nationwide too.

It may be the densest census tract, but does that have any relevance?

World wise, I am sure there are higher densities in many Asian cities. Where Sq footage is often smaller.
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Old 11-27-2012, 06:37 AM
 
Location: Manhattan
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Yeah,
Guttenberg was my first thought also so I checked the density:
They've got 10,807 people living in .16 square mile and at 640 acres per square mile that works out to 89 people per acre, far less than the Lefrak City site.

The fact that Lefrak City comes out highest is just a quirk of drawing census maps. One could probably draw dozens of imagined sites the same size in many areas and get denser populations.

Take Guttenberg for example...most of the tiny city is modest 2 and three story buildings but half of the poplualtion lives in 3 immense buildings on a tiny site on the Palisades called THE GALAXY TOWERS. If the Galaxy was it's own census site, it would be denser than Lefrak City.
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Old 11-27-2012, 09:46 PM
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Location: Long Island / NYC
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nykiddo718718 View Post
Although Lefrak City is very dense by any standard, I doubt it is the densest concentration of residencies in the city or country. My guess would be like a section of the Upper East Side. The Upper West Side, Greater Harlem, Washington Heights/Inwood, the Grand Concourse neighborhoods and the Canal Street/14th Street neighborhoods are up there city/nationwide too.
take a look at this map click on the arrow and choose density:

Mapping the 2010 U.S. Census - NYTimes.com

2nd densest census tract looks like it's in the UES between 89th and 94th streets, 1st and 3rd Ave. The Upper East Side, especially east of 3rd Ave looks like it has the densest cluster of residences. The high density continues further south but slightly less.

Quote:
World wise, I am sure there are higher densities in many Asian cities. Where Sq footage is often smaller.
Of developed world Asian cities, Tokyo and Seoul doesn't have a neighborhood as dense as the Upper East Side. Hong Kong does. In Europe, Barcelona does.
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Old 11-28-2012, 05:25 AM
 
Location: Manhattan
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Quote:
2nd densest census tract looks like it's in the UES between 89th and 94th streets, 1st and 3rd Ave.
I can vouch for that: home sweet home, for the gazillion of us.
Yet come nighfall and the streets get suddenly emptied.
(I guess we all have FIOS.)
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Old 11-28-2012, 11:32 AM
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Location: Long Island / NYC
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That tract in the UES is 313 people / acre btw.
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Old 11-30-2012, 09:52 PM
 
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Originally Posted by nei View Post
2nd densest census tract looks like it's in the UES between 89th and 94th streets, 1st and 3rd Ave.
Yes, I know that tiny Guttenberg, NJ (121 acres) is the densest city proper at 89 ppl/acre.

Yes, at 314 ppl/acre the tract in the UES between 89th and 94th streets, 1st and 3rd Ave is the second highest density tract in the nation, just behind LeFrac City at 325 ppl/acre.

Density is clearly a very variable measurement depending on if the geographic area is: state, county, city, Community Board, Zip code, or census tract. Every possible choice has issues.

Usually I consider Manhattan to be 100 ppl/acre, the upper East Side to be 200 ppl/acre and don't dig deeper than that. But there is a single building in the UES that has it's own zip code, so that it's density is 250.

But back to LeFrac City. It has 20 buildings with 230 apartments per building (16 floors). Apartments for $1K are 468-489 sq ft, and the biggest are 1275-1280. The resort was built between 1962-1969 one complaint is that the walkways are so narrow that muggings are commonplace. LeFrak City is built on 40 acres and about 3-4 acres is public building. There is shopping as part of the complex, but a newer mall and a Costco built next door seems to have displaced the local stores.

The proposal at Atlantic Yard (Barclay's Center) in Brooklyn was for 16 buildings with 400 apartments per building. The whole complex is 24 acres, but it includes the sports and concert venues as well as the apartments. The complaint at the zoning boards was that it was the highest density housing in the country. The developer said that since there were four census tracts subdividing the property, that it wouldn't have the highest density housing tract in the city. It seemed a specious argument, since it would clearly be much higher density than LeFrak City.

How the Other Half Lives: Studies Among the Tenements of New York (1890) was an early publication of photojournalism by Jacob Riis, documenting squalid living conditions in New York City slums in the 1880s. It served as a basis for future "muckraking" journalism by exposing the slums to New York City’s upper and middle classes. A report at that time documented that some slums had 800 residents/acre. Since clearly this was years before highrises, we can only assume that single men were hot-bunking and children were virtually sleeping in heaps. Most people would have to eat street food, as individual kitchens would have been impossible. Mortality rates must have been astonishingly high, as every communicable disease would sweep through the neighborhood.
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Old 12-01-2012, 12:47 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kefir King View Post
Yeah,
Guttenberg was my first thought also so I checked the density:
They've got 10,807 people living in .16 square mile and at 640 acres per square mile that works out to 89 people per acre, far less than the Lefrak City site.

The fact that Lefrak City comes out highest is just a quirk of drawing census maps. One could probably draw dozens of imagined sites the same size in many areas and get denser populations.

Take Guttenberg for example...most of the tiny city is modest 2 and three story buildings but half of the poplualtion lives in 3 immense buildings on a tiny site on the Palisades called THE GALAXY TOWERS. If the Galaxy was it's own census site, it would be denser than Lefrak City.
Guttenberg is a town and it is also a single census tract . As Guttenberg is population 11,176 in 120-155 acres (different sources) and LeFrak City is 12,330 in 38-40 acres. So even if Guttenberg were broken into two tracts, both tracts would be much less dense than LeFrak City.

The Pavilion 500 East 77th Street (built 1963) has 843 rental apartments (1685 ppl) and it's own zip code (10162). As a result it is the densest zip code in the USA at 232 ppl/acre. If the 7.2 acre zip code didn't include the empty park next door, it might be the over 400 people per acre. The PAvilion is a very expensive place to live.

QUEENSBRIDGE HOUSES is the largest public housing project (50 acres) in North America, but it is a lot less dense than LeFrak City (40 acres) because the buildings are only 6 stories. But it opened in 1940, and was built with money saving measures even back then. It has to be horrible place to live.

Stuyvesant Town—Peter Cooper Village in Manhattan has 56 residential buildings, 11250 apartments, and over 25000 residents in 80 acres. That would presumably be an average of 2.22 people per apartment. If they got up to the norm of 2.5 people per apartment they would go to a higher density than LeFrak Village.
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Old 12-01-2012, 01:19 AM
 
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The new 432 Park Place which will be a whopping 1,395' tall (the antenna on Empire State Building is 1,454' . but it is officially 1250'). The residential building will be ultra thin the a base of only 1/5 an acre. At most it will be 6 apartments per floor. The 128 apartments will range from 1390 sq feet to over 8000 sq feet for the penthouse. There will also be 25 studios for the staff, so a big part of your pay will be a home in this part of town. So you can expect at least 300-350 people to live there in luxury as the units will sell for $4.5K per square foot.

So if we assume 300 people (including 25 staff), and the building is only 1/5 acre that would mean a density of 1500 ppl/acre. I think the entire development site is 1/2 acre, which must include entrances and would make it a mere 700 ppl/acre.
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