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Old 12-05-2007, 11:41 AM
 
Location: Atlantic Highlands NJ/Ponte Vedra FL/NYC
2,689 posts, read 446,788 times
Reputation: 328

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Guywithacause View Post
Agreed...I think the wear and tear on your sanity/body of commuting, the never seeing your kids except to tuck them into bed, and the astronomical/ever increasing commmuting costs and taxes in these suburbs far outweigh the advantages...which is why the city is becoming so darn popular. Who the heck wants to heat/cool, maintain, clean, and landscape large homes out there anymore....no thanks...and as these costs continue to skyrocket...the Bronx will be swarmed and forced to change for the better!
more nonsense! I live almost 50 miles from manhattan and I can commute to lower manhattan almost as fast as I was able to commute when I lived on the upper east side.
I think your limited view of suburban living is clouded by people you know who got suckered into moving to the ghetto in the country, NE PA.
many people moved there from the bronx who were enticed by the cheap cost of homes out there but they never factored in the 2+ hour commute.
Most people who live in closer in suburbs are not living the nightmare you've described.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Guywithacause View Post
I sure as heck don't envy any of these people..of course there is a tradeoff...I don't have a large expanse of grass to mow, and I don't have neighbors that look, act, and think just like me, and I don't attempt to keep up with neighbors, and I don't have the priviledge of driving my SUV 3 miles to get a quart of milk....
yeah, you have the pleasure of shopping in over priced bodegas, a dollar store or 2 and fine dining is a chicken or chinese take out that has a wall of glass between you and the owner. that walk to the stores is nice too, passing the garbage in the streets, the loiterers in front of the place, you never see a blade of grass except for the small patches near the pjs, you get to smell the sweet mix of garbage, dog poop and exhaust fumes, your kids go to schools where metal detectors are the norm and who would want to be like the crack heads, criminals and prostitutes that hang about Mott Haven?
Hey Mott haven works for you but it sure isn't a place most people have any aspirations of moving up to.
you keep on promoting the place, one day it just might turn around

Last edited by apvbguy; 12-05-2007 at 11:53 AM..

 
Old 12-05-2007, 12:02 PM
 
Location: Bronx, New York
1,767 posts, read 4,165,739 times
Reputation: 482
Quote:
Originally Posted by apvbguy View Post
Central paris is mostly an urban museum, paris is much smaller than even the Bronx, the highways ring paris as do most of the commerce and most of the residential areas, there are few run down parts in paris but most of the poverty is found outside the city proper. you are comparing apples and oranges
All that is true. But the fact that Paris didn't let LeCorvosier put his vision in the center of Paris makes it apples to apples. That was the point I was trying to make. But I guess we'll have to agree to disagree on whether the highways were good for the Bronx! Great discussion!
 
Old 12-05-2007, 12:02 PM
 
979 posts, read 2,461,798 times
Reputation: 469
A big difference of the Bronx of today and the Bronx of the past, is that people are willing to stay in the Bronx. People are buying and the population is growing. The ones that don't stay, leave because it has become too expensive for them, but the ones that can and want to stay, are trying whatever means to stay. This is not the same Bronx from the 70's to the 90's where everyone, I am sure, wanted to leave.
 
Old 12-05-2007, 12:08 PM
 
Location: Bronx, New York
1,767 posts, read 4,165,739 times
Reputation: 482
Quote:
Originally Posted by apvbguy View Post
more nonsense! I live almost 50 miles from manhattan and I can commute to lower manhattan almost as fast as I was able to commute when I lived on the upper east side.
I think your limited view of suburban living is clouded by people you know who got suckered into moving to the ghetto in the country, NE PA.
many people moved there from the bronx who were enticed by the cheap cost of homes out there but they never factored in the 2+ hour commute.
Most people who live in closer in suburbs are not living the nightmare you've described.
I'm gonna agree with you on the NE PA part. I will say this....many of those folk wanted a better life from the bad city neighborhoods, plus an affordable place, and thought that the Poconos were the best spot. It offered lower prices v. New York and Jersey, and also lower taxes as opposed to the high Jersey prop taxes. Add to that the promise of a commuter rail, and many folk jumped at it.

Now.....
1) where's the rail?
2) Them commuter fees went up! Waaaay up!
3) the issues people ran away from in the city came along with them (gangs, etc!)
 
Old 12-05-2007, 12:11 PM
 
Location: bronx - north
473 posts, read 1,169,657 times
Reputation: 109
Default pocono thugs?

Quote:
Originally Posted by scatman View Post
the issues people ran away from in the city came along with them (gangs, etc!)
there are gangs in the poconos? wow.... now that's interesting. are u sure it's not a bunch of wanna-bes? oh well
 
Old 12-05-2007, 12:17 PM
DAS
 
2,276 posts, read 3,796,489 times
Reputation: 882
Quote:
3) the issues people ran away from in the city came along with them (gangs, etc!)
Can you show where this is true?

Some people that moved in recent years say that all the sacrifices that you have already stated in this thread was worth it for their children's sake.
They say that their children were headed down the wrong track and they were able to finish high school and enter college because of this move. Yes they are dead tired from the commute, but in the end they would do it over again because of this.

I have heard it from quite a few people.
 
Old 12-05-2007, 12:20 PM
 
Location: Mott Haven
2,978 posts, read 1,060,846 times
Reputation: 209
It is hard to believe that you live 50 miles away and it takes you the same amount of time as living in the upper east side. That being said...does it also cost the same too? My view of the suburbs has nothing to do with those who moved to NE Pennsylvania. I was addressing the many that pay the outrageous taxes, and deal with a brutal commute day in and day out. It takes a toll on you and your family...and all the time you spend away commuting and not participating in their lives is ironic considering that many move specifically to the suburbs for the kids! And I stand by my assertion that even those who live close in the suburbs (like your 50 mile commute) go through the same hell...you are just numb to it.

As for Mott Haven..I do not promote it...I acknowledge the good and the bad. I also acknowledge that I can bike ride to all the amenities I need in the city...or take a 20 minute train ride on my unlimited metro-card....$100 meals, spas, hotels, bars, and friends....you always can drive 10 miles, waste 5 gallons of gas, sit in traffic, and enjoy TGIF though!

And you may see the bodegas as overpriced...but I can WALK to them...and you may see the dollar store as a negative...but I am glad to WALK over and spend 99 CENTS on household items like brooms, mops, tools, cleaners, and a whole other host of personal items...who says living in the city is expensive! You can drive to wal-mart though, spend 5 gallons of gas, sit in traffic, and spend more....clearly that's better right?

No green grass? Try more parks in the Bronx than anywhere else in the city and a heck of alot bigger than your yard...without the maintenance...just a bike-ride away (nope..still don't need a car)! Speaking of exhaust fumes...you do have to drive for everything right...? Hmm...I walk....now who has the exhaust fumes..

As for schools, no self-respecting person would send their kids to public schools..and they don't have to.. there are PLENTY of great catholic and private schools throughout the borough and the city (all accessible through..guess what public transportation!).


Suburbs serve their purpose as a choice for those looking to escape city life, have a large home, and send their kids to good public schools. No doubt...but that mentality is changing as the negatives are outweighing the positives...and as cities continue to appeal to a broader audience...the trend to the city continues...and people are returning. Welcome back...and yes..Mott Haven is open for business.
 
Old 12-05-2007, 12:56 PM
 
Location: Atlantic Highlands NJ/Ponte Vedra FL/NYC
2,689 posts, read 446,788 times
Reputation: 328
Quote:
Originally Posted by bx718 View Post
there are gangs in the poconos? wow.... now that's interesting. are u sure it's not a bunch of wanna-bes? oh well
why do you think the area is known as ghetto in the country?

you can take the boys out of the hood but apparently you can't take the hood out of the boys.
 
Old 12-05-2007, 01:05 PM
 
Location: Mott Haven
2,978 posts, read 1,060,846 times
Reputation: 209
Yes true...you cannot change a deck of cards by reshuffling them...they will not change! The best you can hope for is a better hand..unfortunately, those poor people moving from the inner cities to these desolate, isolated areas are often finding they have a worse hand! Some are making better lives for themselves however....if I were seeking a better life with a lower cost of living I would have chosen Florida..not Pennsylvania...better climate...better living conditions, established communties, beaches, and $10 bucks an hour jobs a plenty!
 
Old 12-05-2007, 01:10 PM
 
Location: Atlantic Highlands NJ/Ponte Vedra FL/NYC
2,689 posts, read 446,788 times
Reputation: 328
Quote:
Originally Posted by Guywithacause View Post
Yes true...you cannot change a deck of cards by reshuffling them...they will not change! The best you can hope for is a better hand..unfortunately, those poor people moving from the inner cities to these desolate, isolated areas are often finding they have a worse hand! Some are making better lives for themselves however....if I were seeking a better life with a lower cost of living I would have chosen Florida..not Pennsylvania...better climate...better living conditions, established communties, beaches, and $10 bucks an hour jobs a plenty!
those 10 buck jobs are paying more than many in the bronx get. The one who moved out there to pa and who are smart are the ones who found work out there and ditched that commute to nyc.
Fla is no bed of roses things are expensive and the good jobs are not here, unless you have a trade or are transfered to FLA with a NY salary don't come here because unless you have a good paying job or have other sources of income, fla can suck
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