The Decline of the Bronx (Wallkill, Eden: housing, condo, rental)

[cyrusjul]

Originally Posted by SuperMario

Most of Harlem are still the same. It has not changed. A high crime ghetto.

Why do you say Harlem is a 'high crime ghetto'? Still the same is what case? Not change from what? Can it be possible to say that Harlem is a low crime 'Ghetto', well comparing it to other 'ghettos' in the city?

Doesn't Harlem already has a low crime statistic these days? Where are these numbers that will make it such high crime?

[SuperMario]

[/quote]

Originally Posted by cyrusjul

Why do you say Harlem is a 'high crime ghetto'? Still the same is what case? Not change from what? Can it be possible to say that Harlem is a low crime 'Ghetto', well comparing it to other 'ghettos' in the city?

Most of Harlem east of St. Nick, is still home to many low-income families. With poverty comes crime. Take a look at the crime stats for central/east Harlem this year. The not change is in reference to the quality of life for these people. Well its hard to find a "low crime" ghetto. But east Harlem is right up there with any ghetto in the city.

I will say that west Harlem has improved alot. I attend school in west Harlem and cant say that I fear i'll be a crime victim. That's not to say that crime wont happen, but the chances are lower than say 10 years ago. Still, Amsterdam is a very visually unappelaing strip. Alot of graffiti, and still has the appearance of a ghetto.

Doesn't Harlem already has a low crime statistic these days? Where are these numbers that will make it such high crime?

Well in comparison to lets say 1990, Harlem has lower crime. In terms of crime rate, it still is above average or high. For the crime stats, go to the NYPD site and look at the precinct. Find the population in the area, and set it in terms of 100,000. There you have your crime rate.

[Guywithacause]

Yes considering how Harlem WAS...it is NOW VASTLY BETTER. This much lower crime rate has paved the way for new businesses and development to step back into the area..along with new residents.

Is it perfect? Nope....but crime has decreased dramatically over the past 10-15 years...as has much of the city overall. It does however have a higher crime rate than the average..but it is still MUCH better than it was...and as a result of the decreased crime, and location, Harlem's renaissance is taking center stage..and the growth, investment, and new faces continue. All the fear mongering about "higher than average crime rate" is silly...yes the crime rate is higher than average..but why nitpic? No place is perfect and soemthing bad can be said about everything. Wanna live in LA? Nope..has Earthquakes. Wanna live in Boston? Nope...brutal winters. Wanna live in Florida? Nope..Hurricanes. Wanna live in the Midwest? Nope...tornadoes...and on and on...

Its all your view and perspective...cocnentrate on the few negatives and sit on the sidelines and complain and critique those that are moving in and making things better....or you can stop complaining and critiquing and take action like the rest of us.

But again...my perspective

[SuperMario]

It has improved Guy, but then again what hasnt?

Things were so bad 15-20 years ago, that neighborhoods had nowhere to go but up. It wasn't going to continue at those levels. So the improvement is actually a given.

There isn't anywhere that's perfect, but Harlem is far from it. I don't know about you but I rather not choose a place with a high crime/poverty rate. This "Harlem renaissance" you speak of has yet to reach east Harlem. Who knows maybe it will, or maybe it wont. I see things for what they are, and as of today Harlem is still the ghetto. Not complaining or anything but it is what it is.

And you want me to do something? Like what, go to the streets of Harlem and sing kumbaya while standing on a box. Im sure the locals would love it.

[NooYowkur81]

Originally Posted by SuperMario

It has improved Guy, but then again what hasnt?

Things were so bad 15-20 years ago, that neighborhoods had nowhere to go but up. It wasn't going to continue at those levels. So the improvement is actually a given.

There isn't anywhere that's perfect, but Harlem is far from it. I don't know about you but I rather not choose a place with a high crime/poverty rate. This "Harlem renaissance" you speak of has yet to reach east Harlem. Who knows maybe it will, or maybe it wont. I see things for what they are, and as of today Harlem is still the ghetto. Not complaining or anything but it is what it is.

And you want me to do something? Like what, go to the streets of Harlem and sing kumbaya while standing on a box. Im sure the locals would love it.

Not necessarily, if you look around the country some areas actually got worse or stagnated after the crack epidemic.

But anyway nothing is going to change your mind.

[Guywithacause]

The improvement is not a given as there aer numerous neighborhoods and communities throughout the country that were just as bad...and are still as bad as they were...they have essentially remained unchanged. So I wholeheartedly disagree with your assertion that it was a given...as the many other communities that have not improved at all have shown.

Yes and I would prefer to live in Riverdale on a 3 acre estate....but I cant so as a result...I, along with 95% of the NYC residents, must live where I can afford. Yes it has a higher crime/poverty rate...but its all about compromise..since the vast majority cannot live in the elite areas...we must consider area like harlem....whereas before there were many options..today there are few..which is why areas like Harlem are doing so well...people are rethinking what is means to live in Harlem...and the decreased crime rate and new investment is making life there quite nice for many locals as well as new people.

Is it perfect? Nope...but it is a good a choice as any for the price...and ultimately...price is a big factor for the vast majority. In a perfect world nobody would ever live in an area that is "above average crime and poverty" but the limited area in this city, the monumental drop in crime rates, and the high cost of living as of late....means all best are off and just about every neighborhood is being inundated with new people and investment...and it is a good thing.

And yes the Harlem renaiisance that I, along with many others speak of, has already started in East harlem...then again...if you think it is no better than it was even 5 years ago..there is no point in discussing further.

I don't want you to do anything..the more people that sit on the sidelines and complain, and scare other people away, the easier it is for people like me to generate the wealth I desire, and improve the community for myself and my neighbors. Furthermore, it is tragic that when I assert that people should do something to help improve their communities, you think it means sing kumbaya while standing on a box. Very sad.

[homogeneous]

Cannot agree more - white flight sums it up, really

Originally Posted by jjbradleynyc

A HUGE contributor to the decline of the Bronx was the "white flight to the suburbs," beginning in the 1950s. Contributing to the Bronx' specific downslide was also the construction of the Cross Bronx Expressway, which someone mentioned, destroying many intact, lively, and safe neighborhoods. A third issue which was the final nail in the coffin (so-to-speak) was the NYC 70's fiscal crisis, bad leadership, and the blackout, which lead to the riots. The late '70s and 1980s were dark times for the Bronx. The 1990s weren't much better, and now I think this decade has begun to rattle some development in a lot of 'hoods in the Bronx. I think the Bronx has a bright future. NYC is growing, and the Bronx can only go up.

[Gerrifromthebronx]

I agree! We stayed in the bronx until 1979; resisted moving to Coop City, like all my friends. But when my father's car was broken into one night, fixed, then broken into the next night. we knew we couldn't hold out any longer. It was sad, but our new neighbors didn't seem to have regard for property or their neighborhood.

Originally Posted by Songbird42

.) Those of you who left your childhood neighborhoods for the suburbs are partly to blame for the decline in these areas. If you cared about your so called home you wouldn't have given up on these neighborhoods.

You should've held your ground and assisted in maintaining these areas. Instead you blame the next wave of immigrants for the decline meanwhile it was the economic condition of the 60s-80s and landlords that should be attributed to the decline not the people.
////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////

My family home was bought by a illiterate slimmy bast**d, who came in and jacked the rent up like crazy, back in 64 we were paying $150 a month for a 3bedroom/1 bath......with garage, after the sale of the home, slimmy bast**d wanted $400 a month, plus $100 for the garage. This is the home that my father was born in, I was born in.....do you think we wanted to leave, hell, no. My folks had just finished building a home in NJ to be their retirement home, cost $11,000 for a 3/2/1 taxes $300.00 a year. Mortgage payment was $98.00 a month. We moved out that weekend, never to return.
Slimmy bast**d, tore down the garage, and turned it into a slum, renting to the lowest of low that destroyed the whole place. Today, that property is valued at $380,000 and looks like a hellhole with illegal apts in the basement.
So did we want to move, absolutely not, were we pushed out, yes. Today, I have enough money to buy that home if for sale, could I turn around the neighborhood, hell no......its too far gone and one white girl isn't gonna do a hell of alot.

[apvbguy]

Originally Posted by Gerrifromthebronx

I agree! We stayed in the bronx until 1979; resisted moving to Coop City, like all my friends. But when my father's car was broken into one night, fixed, then broken into the next night. we knew we couldn't hold out any longer. It was sad, but our new neighbors didn't seem to have regard for property or their neighborhood.

you are fortunate it was only a car that was attacked, most people I knew were phyically attacked, some didn't make it

[Guywithacause]

Most people I know lived just fine....the idea of a warzone was primarily those who were trouble makers...and no matter where they went the trouble followed.