The Decline of the Bronx (Inwood, Eden: wood floors, salons, crime rate)

[Sam82]

Guywithacause,

Your wrote, "I agree that with your comment Sam82...the issue is however, that people are not as dumb as you believe. They are well aware of the income limits..who would not change jobs, or take a pay cut to stay in the housing projects and live virtually rent free?"

I'm still a little confused. I'm not accusing people of being dumb. I'm simply saying that the pjs are not easy to get into. Nor are they so cheap for those with decent jobs. You pay a percentage of your gross income, I believe around 30% (there is a some kind of limit). Those who would be paying the most amount of rent rarely get a chance to live in the pjs because they are low priority. You also have generations staying the pjs which results in less apartments opening up.

I think that taking a pay cut would be an extreme thing to do to stay in the pjs. I have recently been in one of the complexes in mott haven and it was poorly maintained. The grounds, lobby, and elevator were really dirty. Honestly, the elevator smelled like urine. I would not take a pay cut to live under those conditions.

The interior of the atcual apartments are no better (or worse) than Parkchester or stuy-town in manhattan (I've been in both). The difference is how the buildings are maintained and the people that live there. If the pjs let in more "middle-class" people, they would have more money for maintaing the buildings. Maybe then they could keep the elevators and floors clean.

[bxchick]

I think what has/is occuring in Harlem is long over due. Let's be real here..how can we continue to have an area in such a state of disarray, chaos, and neglect? The area was desperate for investment and I, along with many true Harlemites, are happy to see the reinvestment, new faces, new businesses, and attention....it's about time.

You are right though..when you walk through Harlem it is not the same....there are not nearly as many burned/abandoned buildings, not as many drug addicts roaming the streets, crime is way down, and you can actually walk around and not worry (tto much) about being attacked.

I think you missed my point. I am not saying that I don't want the areas cleaned up and safer what I meant was that Harlem is not the same as far as some of the stores they have. There is more commerical retail stores like the gap old navy not alot of mom and pop shops where you could find name brand clothing for alot cheaper like there used to be years ago. They used to have outdoor concerts, Grants Tomb on Wed. in the summertime Rutger games (but I still think they have those Im not sure) things like that it just had a different feel back then when I was growing up. As far as the bronx I want them to clean it up and make it safer but I also don't want it to turn into Manhattan.

I am glad to see the changes that are ocurring in the Bronx as well..and for the same reasons. I can take or leave the bodegas...in general they are way too dirty and the losers hanging out there constantly are a deterrent...the idea that you would eat a sandwich from a bodega makes my stomach turn.

And I don't know where you live in but in my area the bodegas are always clean. If it wasn't I would defintely not eat there.

[Busch Boy]

Originally Posted by Sam82

Guywithacause,

Your wrote, "I agree that with your comment Sam82...the issue is however, that people are not as dumb as you believe. They are well aware of the income limits..who would not change jobs, or take a pay cut to stay in the housing projects and live virtually rent free?"

I'm still a little confused. I'm not accusing people of being dumb. I'm simply saying that the pjs are not easy to get into. Nor are they so cheap for those with decent jobs. You pay a percentage of your gross income, I believe around 30% (there is a some kind of limit). Those who would be paying the most amount of rent rarely get a chance to live in the pjs because they are low priority. You also have generations staying the pjs which results in less apartments opening up.

I think that taking a pay cut would be an extreme thing to do to stay in the pjs. I have recently been in one of the complexes in mott haven and it was poorly maintained. The grounds, lobby, and elevator were really dirty. Honestly, the elevator smelled like urine. I would not take a pay cut to live under those conditions.

The interior of the atcual apartments are no better (or worse) than Parkchester or stuy-town in manhattan (I've been in both). The difference is how the buildings are maintained and the people that live there. If the pjs let in more "middle-class" people, they would have more money for maintaing the buildings. Maybe then they could keep the elevators and floors clean.

I was always under the impression that only extremely poor people lived in the projects because they could not afford anything else. Why would someone with a decent income choose to stay there on their own will?

Believe it or not, I'd say a lot of the residents in the pj's are decent people who are stuck there. It's very sad.

[Sam82]

Your rent in the projects is not fixed. It is a percentage of your household income. As I mentioned earlier, there is some kind of a cap. I believe they call it ceiling rent. Many people live there because as Guy mentioned, the rent is cheaper than market rate. Still, there is no excuse for the hallways and elevators to be so dirty and smelly. I mean, who the H*ll is peeing in the elevator. That's just nasty!

[bxchick]

I was always under the impression that only extremely poor people lived in the projects because they could not afford anything else. Why would someone with a decent income choose to stay there on their own will?

Please poor people yeah right. I was raised in the pjs and don't get me wrong you have people that can not afford to live elsewhere and are stuck there but you also have people who live there because they want. They are riding in escalades, benz's, bmw's etc. walking around in furs and designer clothes so you tell me if that sounds like they are poor. They are not going to live somewhere else and pay $1000/mo or more in rent when they can live in the pjs for half of that and the rest of the money earned is their's to spend however they want. I mean can you blame them? As for the peeing in the elevators some people are disgusting most of the time it's the drunks or kids who can't make it upstairs in time. Maintenance was pretty good about cleaning it at least in my pjs but people kept on doing it. Bottom line is not everyone feels the same some people couldn't except things that go on in the pjs no matter what the rent is and then you have those who can tolerate it and live in a very affordable apartment.

[Dark of the Moon]

Originally Posted by bxchick

Please poor people yeah right. I was raised in the pjs and don't get me wrong you have people that can not afford to live elsewhere and are stuck there but you also have people who live there because they want. They are riding in escalades, benz's, bmw's etc. walking around in furs and designer clothes so you tell me if that sounds like they are poor. They are not going to live somewhere else and pay $1000/mo or more in rent when they can live in the pjs for half of that and the rest of the money earned is their's to spend however they want.

Many of the students in my school come from the projects, and the majority of them have $300 Sidekicks and $200 iPods; they wear expensive sneakers and leather jackets in the winter. (Of course, none of them ever has a pencil or notebook paper, but that's another story .....)

It just seems odd that they live in housing designed for low-income people, but have enough money for these kinds of consumer goods. You know?

[SuperMario]

Alot of them steal the sidekicks or ipods. Or they buy it cheaper from their friend who stoled it from somebody else.

[K.O.N.Y]

the bronx needs a downtown

[Sam82]

"As for the peeing in the elevators some people are disgusting most of the time it's the drunks or kids who can't make it upstairs in time. Maintenance was pretty good about cleaning it at least in my pjs but people kept on doing it."

I'm talking about very recent experiences in the pjs. My mother lived in the pjs when they were new and had a totally different experience. Anyway, my point is that CURRENTLY, the pjs are poorly maintained. There have been many layoffs in housing, which is part of the decline. It doesn't help that some people are nasty and have no respect for where they live. I personally would not want to live under these conditions. I would rather pay a couple of hundred dollars more to live in a clean building where the rodents and pests (roaches and mice) are under control. I have never come home and smelled pee or vomit in the hallway or elevator. This was the case when I visited the pjs three weeks ago.

[Guywithacause]

Alot of good responses! I think the projects are better maintained now than they were even 7 years ago. That being said...the are still in a bit of a time warp with apts, lobbies and hallways still very depressing and raggedy. Pee in the elevators is oftentimes from kids being dumb, bums, or dogs who just can't hold it! Until the city changes the projects to more of an affordable housing development, i.e. income restricted with Maximums AND Minimums to diversify the class of people and incomes, opening up essentially to the working/middle class, it will be stuck with the same problems forever.

But regarding the Bronx in general, I was up in Stratford and Westchester Avenue area..and the place was a freaking zoo yesterday. I had not been there for awhile but I was amazed how it felt worse than it used to be (just my feeling of course). However I went to a friends house and he was on the top floor of one of the tenement buildings, and his apt was renovated, open kitchen, hardwood floors, high ceilings, it was really nice and he pays $1,000 for a 1 bedroom. He indicated that as units are being turned over they are renovating and bringing in new people (he was one of them). I was happy to see the investment but they certianly have their work cut out for them..nonetheless, as I said....the Bronx is being brought back one apt at a time, one building at a time, one block at a times..and it is working.