The Decline of the Bronx (Lincoln: crime rates, subsidized, live in)

[BronxPride]

Funny. Since you always seem to know all the rough neighborhoods in the Bronx, I have always imagined you chillin with your boys on the streets all night long, after a hard day of playing Super Mario Bros on your Super Nintendo. LOL

[quote=SuperMario;4215387]I was walking on University ave towards Fordham on saturday and you wouldn't believe the amount of guys chilling on the block. I was a little uncomfortable but nothing happened.

[Pete Piper]

Originally Posted by SeventhFloor

well GWAC you bring up something interesting....which is the whole point of public housing was to try and stem the overcrowding, and bring open space areas into the slums of the city. in my opnion they are well planned and thought out in terms of building, but they're not managed well. my prediction is that the middle-class will eventually live in the projects, blue-collar workers and clerical jobs, basically the people that help run this city. and the low income people will have to flee town, with they way things are going.

Do you predict that in the future that there will be no place for the poor in this city?

[Guywithacause]

I think there will be a place for the poor..the question is..how are you defining the poor? The lower classes? The destitute and indigent? Drug addicts and convicts that cannot/will not work or are otherwise incapable of doing so?

[jackson92186]

how about the immigrant family starting off with nothing? Where do you think they'll live, guy?

The projects was a concept derived from the french architect La Cabusier as part of his little experiment to try impose his ideal on the urban environment. These buildings have no relation with the street, and terrible use of space considering they tore down more housing units than they provided, which essentially makes conditions even more crowded. It was imposed by racist leaders like Robert Moses for a dumping ground for the poor. The projects are horrible concept from some out of touch intellectual who never lived in these type of neighborhoods. What the city should have done, to save neighborhoods, as well as money, is to renovate the housing that was once there, rather than concentrating all the poorest people into brutalist high-rises.

Guy, with your help people are getting out-priced from their apartments. Gentrification would be a good thing if there were more homeownership, and no, the bronx is not being gentrified, YET, but it is about two steps away from doing so. the gap between poor and rich in this city is greater than ever at the same time housing prices are increasingly out of reach. Like I have said, the city should focus on opening up more parts of NY for development via transportation.

I find it annoying when people are like "well the jews and the irish and the italians used to live in these neighborhoods and they left too." but that's entirely different from what's happening now, because they're not being forced out. They left by choice, and i don't see how its fair that whenever they want, they can just come back in and force out the people who live and established their lives in the neighborhoods they left.

[Guywithacause]

With my help people are getting priced out from their apts? Me? That's laughable. If my words had the power to raise rents, change neighborhoods at the stroke of a keyboard, I would not be wasting my time with the Bronx that's for sure!

Let's be real here..if you think I should "shut up" about the Bronx and somehow spread a lie that it is horrible, falling apart, and totally undesirable so that you can have cheap rent...you are smoking something really strong. I love the Bronx, and I say why! Sue me.

Regarding what is fair, if they can afford to pay the price, then it is fair for them to live anywhere they want. Just as it is fair that people of color with the money can freely buy wherever they want as well. You cannot have it both ways...equality and open markets, or none at it..which do you prefer? You are not owed a place to live, of your choosing, at the price you deem fair or reasonable. Not sure why you would even think that...but in real life you live where you can afford, no matter what color you are. And if white people want to live in the Bronx..make room....the same way they made room for you.

[Fred314X]

Originally Posted by Guywithacause

Regarding what is fair, if they can afford to pay the price, then it is fair for them to live anywhere they want. Just as it is fair that people of color with the money can freely buy wherever they want as well. You cannot have it both ways...equality and open markets, or none at it..which do you prefer? You are not owed a place to live, of your choosing, at the price you deem fair or reasonable. Not sure why you would even think that...but in real life you live where you can afford, no matter what color you are. And if white people want to live in the Bronx..make room....the same way they made room for you.

Uh oh...I think you may have injected too much common sense into the discussion!

[SeventhFloor]

Originally Posted by Pete Piper

Do you predict that in the future that there will be no place for the poor in this city?

i believe thats exactly what will happen...like how all the poor in paris live on the outskirts of the city.

[SeventhFloor]

Originally Posted by jackson92186

how about the immigrant family starting off with nothing? Where do you think they'll live, guy?

The projects was a concept derived from the french architect La Cabusier as part of his little experiment to try impose his ideal on the urban environment. These buildings have no relation with the street, and terrible use of space considering they tore down more housing units than they provided, which essentially makes conditions even more crowded. It was imposed by racist leaders like Robert Moses for a dumping ground for the poor. The projects are horrible concept from some out of touch intellectual who never lived in these type of neighborhoods. What the city should have done, to save neighborhoods, as well as money, is to renovate the housing that was once there, rather than concentrating all the poorest people into brutalist high-rises.

Guy, with your help people are getting out-priced from their apartments. Gentrification would be a good thing if there were more homeownership, and no, the bronx is not being gentrified, YET, but it is about two steps away from doing so. the gap between poor and rich in this city is greater than ever at the same time housing prices are increasingly out of reach. Like I have said, the city should focus on opening up more parts of NY for development via transportation.

I find it annoying when people are like "well the jews and the irish and the italians used to live in these neighborhoods and they left too." but that's entirely different from what's happening now, because they're not being forced out. They left by choice, and i don't see how its fair that whenever they want, they can just come back in and force out the people who live and established their lives in the neighborhoods they left.

in all fairness, there's no renovating when it comes to cold-water flats with 1 bathroom per floor and inadequate light and air...the projects was a social experiment that failed because it was not well thought out. i think if different income levels were mixed in, it may have been less of a failed experiment.

[ontheGtrain]

The creation of the welfare state in the 1960s with Johnson's Great Society was probably the single worst thing. It has enslaved generation after generation. The only way to break the cycle is to kick everybody out of the Pjs after 3 years as the plan was supposed to be. It is not PC and it will not happen under the current (lack of) leadership but it is only way I see things ever turning around.

[Guywithacause]

I agree with Seventh and OntheGrain....you both make very valid points that the vast majority of people will not/cannot understand about how things unfolded in NYC. it is always easier to just blame the black/brown/poor than actually think about what has/is happening. And the only way to fix problems is to acknowledge them in their true form, how they occured, and only then can you take steps to move forward.

I would enjoy seeing the projects demolished, however I understand that is not really the answer, but it would provide me with a personal fulfilment of "that period of our lives is over" and now we can move forward. This is really not feasible, politically popular, or even necessary, as the city has a profound opportunity to make the housing projects into anything it really wants, so why destory excellently built, solid housing, with plenty of green space in oftentimes excellent locations.

There needs to be some courage shown to transform the projects MORE into a mixed income community, and not just the dumping ground for the poor/undesirables. It is being done now, but MORE needs to be done...and I believe within the next 5 years that a new "vision" for housing in NYC, besides just the affordable housing initiatives, will target life in the housing projects.