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Old 01-29-2010, 03:55 PM
 
Location: Bronx, NY
4,390 posts, read 5,655,382 times
Reputation: 5391

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Songbird42 View Post
Let me start by saying I don't want to hurt anyone's feelings here, that's not my intent, whether Hispanic/Black/Asian/or whatever. I lived in the Bronx from 1947 to 1964, I was a teenager then, back then my neighborhood was mostly Jewish/Irish/German, period. We were one block off the Concourse and from the low 80's North all the way to Moshula Parkway(sp) there were only whites, very very few of other nationalities. The Italians were over in the Belmont Section, the Hispancis (Puerto Ricans) were over by Kelly St, Simpson Ave and Charlotte St. The Blacks stayed below the 70's and didn't venture North for fear of getting their a**s beat. Things started to change around 67 from what I can remember being told, there was a major blackout and everyone went nuts, looting/burning....which I believe was unneccessary
and vicious. From that point on, things just went downhill....WHY?

Is it that those who were the poorest, felt the need to vandalize/burn/rob
and beat, because the had less than everyone else? Did they need to bring a whole borough to its knees like savages, did it make them feel better?
There were still some very good citizens that remained, as today, I can count on one hand friends that stayed, eventually, the madness made everyone get out of dodge, so to speak. Those that stayed, well, they struggle and try to survive. Meanwhile, the borough also struggles, they try to clean up areas, the local parks and clean up buildings, and still there are those that given half a chance would destroy what they have. WHY.

For the life of me, I can't understand the reasoning behind it all, I mean the Bronx was a good place for many years, then all of a sudden, a zoo, don't people have any pride in where they live, shop, work......don't get me wrong I love my birthplace, I will defend it with my whole heart, but when I see and hear gangster gangbangers talking sh*t about this being their hood, and they rule the Bronx, I want to scream and holler and tell them to go back to whereever they came from, because they didn't originate in my hometown.
And I want them to get the hell out of there, they give my hometown a bad name.

Thank you for letting me rant, I feel better now. BTW, I come from 183rd St
now one of the worst blocks (as I've been told-right Hustla) in the Bronx.

Your comments welcome............
Let us not forget that the landlords were not making any money at all, so this is where the landlords were burning the buildings. When this occured, poverty arised. Many people were left without any homes. This is when the crack epidemic in the Bronx took place. People were hustling everywhere in order to get money. So you cannot blame it on the people that lived in the Bronx. Also in 2001 or around that timeframe there was another blackout. People were robbing, stealing etc.. as well. So it did not only happened back then it also has happened in recent years.

 
Old 01-29-2010, 06:38 PM
 
Location: Confines of the 101 Precinct
10,472 posts, read 18,968,077 times
Reputation: 3854
im going to city island tomorrow! maybe on the way back i will take the scenic route: pelham pkwy to fordham road to the concourse
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Old 01-30-2010, 10:29 AM
 
Location: Bronx, NY
5,115 posts, read 12,002,481 times
Reputation: 1680
I was with my friend driving all over the city yesterday. He lives in the south Bronx, but we went all over soBro. Passed every single project....from Adams to Jackson to Webster to Forrest to Mitchell etc.....then we crossed into Harlem and I have to say that the area of Harlem around 129th and Adam Clayton is an exactly REPLICA of the lower Bronx. I was shocked. You had the same looking projects, the same type of tenements, you had your boarded up buildings, then the new construction type buildings...
 
Old 01-30-2010, 12:53 PM
 
1,740 posts, read 2,132,421 times
Reputation: 1903
Quote:
Originally Posted by SobroGuy View Post
I would not go so far as to say the rise of the Bronx is incompatible with the current population. It is the current population that has been the driver of the rise of the Bronx for the past 25 years. Whereas places like Brooklyn became "better" by speculators and developers catering to an outside market, the Bronx's resurgence was for the people, by the people.

That being said, the problem is the elected officials who, for the past 30 years, have catered to certain groups, and have governed the borough for their self-interest at the expense of the community. So long as we have this never ending parade of incompetent, Democratic "leaders" that are busy pandering to voting blocks, which ultimately keeps them in power, the borough, and its residents, will suffer. The bulk of policies and legislation enacted by these self-serving career politicians serve only to look keep the checks flowing and keep the masses poor and uneducated so as to maintain themselves in power.

They seek not to improve the borough, but play a game of slight of hand....keep the focus off of their own greed/incompetence, and focused instead on some nefarious, changing entity: You are poor because XXXX (xxx can be white people, big business, landlords, the Mayor, or anyone else they can use to keep blame away from themselves). The keep the community busy blaming everyone for their own problems....but don't blame me..I am on your side! This game has been played for 30 years...on and on...and until the Bronx gets REAL leadership, it will ultimately be the few community organizations that are dragging the borough forward, while everyone else, including our elected officials, plays the blame game.
One of the few common sense posts in this thread.

To me, this has zero to do with color and everything to do with class, behavior and redeeming a borough that's been used as a dumping ground for the last half century. The Bronx should ideally be a middle/working class haven for all types, like it was pre 1950s. Thankfully, there is now a flow of hardworking immigrants of all stripes slowly but surley remaking areas.

Alot of people throw the race card whenever people get truthful about the inner-city-hip-hop-ghetto lifestyle. Mod cut: personal attackPlenty of African, Dominican, Chinese and Irish have been able to hold it down the right way within the Bronx, so why can't the natives?

Call it insensitive, call it bigoted, call it whatever, but ask any middle class family in this country and they'll tell you there is no way in hell they'll move to some tenement where kids sit on steps smoking doobies and howling at girls. They're not going to put up with walls, trains and neighborhoods painted up from top to bottom with tags and Mod cut. They're not going to send their kids to schools w/metal detectors and 50% graduation rates. And all this comes w/ the benefit of sending over 50% of your post-federal tax paycheck to NYS/NYC to pay for the people who do the ish I just described. It's a big theme on this board to bemoan the loss of classic, working class NY. Yet no one here ('cept Fox) has the gumbtion to bring up the un-PC realites as to why urban living has fallen out of flavor w/ the American middle class both in NY and most cities. Instead, it's far safer to blame yuppies/hipsters/the rich (which is codedly racist in and of itself, since we all know which race to which we're referring) and then scratch our heads as to why things don't change.

Last edited by Viralmd; 01-30-2010 at 01:00 PM.. Reason: language
 
Old 01-31-2010, 12:18 PM
 
178 posts, read 257,880 times
Reputation: 149
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shizzles View Post
One of the few common sense posts in this thread.

To me, this has zero to do with color and everything to do with class, behavior and redeeming a borough that's been used as a dumping ground for the last half century. The Bronx should ideally be a middle/working class haven for all types, like it was pre 1950s. Thankfully, there is now a flow of hardworking immigrants of all stripes slowly but surley remaking areas.

Alot of people throw the race card whenever people get truthful about the inner-city-hip-hop-ghetto lifestyle. Mod cut: personal attackPlenty of African, Dominican, Chinese and Irish have been able to hold it down the right way within the Bronx, so why can't the natives?

Call it insensitive, call it bigoted, call it whatever, but ask any middle class family in this country and they'll tell you there is no way in hell they'll move to some tenement where kids sit on steps smoking doobies and howling at girls. They're not going to put up with walls, trains and neighborhoods painted up from top to bottom with tags and Mod cut. They're not going to send their kids to schools w/metal detectors and 50% graduation rates. And all this comes w/ the benefit of sending over 50% of your post-federal tax paycheck to NYS/NYC to pay for the people who do the ish I just described. It's a big theme on this board to bemoan the loss of classic, working class NY. Yet no one here ('cept Fox) has the gumbtion to bring up the un-PC realites as to why urban living has fallen out of flavor w/ the American middle class both in NY and most cities. Instead, it's far safer to blame yuppies/hipsters/the rich (which is codedly racist in and of itself, since we all know which race to which we're referring) and then scratch our heads as to why things don't change.
A few quick things:

1. People like me play the 'race card' because of posts like this that suggest that only immigrants & white people are hard-working and want to live in a desirable area. if you can't understand how ignorant that is then I don't know what to tell ya.

2. urban living hasn't fallen out of flavor with the American middle class.
On the contrary the peckerwoods from the hills are coming "back" down into the city. I thought this was common knowledge.

3. No one except people on the outside looking in are scratching their heads as to why things won't change in the Bronx because anyone who actually lives here, travels around and does any kind of exploration knows it IS changing.
 
Old 01-31-2010, 02:04 PM
 
461 posts, read 1,200,968 times
Reputation: 312
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shizzles View Post
One of the few common sense posts in this thread.

To me, this has zero to do with color and everything to do with class, behavior and redeeming a borough that's been used as a dumping ground for the last half century. The Bronx should ideally be a middle/working class haven for all types, like it was pre 1950s. Thankfully, there is now a flow of hardworking immigrants of all stripes slowly but surley remaking areas.

Alot of people throw the race card whenever people get truthful about the inner-city-hip-hop-ghetto lifestyle. Mod cut: personal attackPlenty of African, Dominican, Chinese and Irish have been able to hold it down the right way within the Bronx, so why can't the natives?

Call it insensitive, call it bigoted, call it whatever, but ask any middle class family in this country and they'll tell you there is no way in hell they'll move to some tenement where kids sit on steps smoking doobies and howling at girls. They're not going to put up with walls, trains and neighborhoods painted up from top to bottom with tags and Mod cut. They're not going to send their kids to schools w/metal detectors and 50% graduation rates. And all this comes w/ the benefit of sending over 50% of your post-federal tax paycheck to NYS/NYC to pay for the people who do the ish I just described. It's a big theme on this board to bemoan the loss of classic, working class NY. Yet no one here ('cept Fox) has the gumbtion to bring up the un-PC realites as to why urban living has fallen out of flavor w/ the American middle class both in NY and most cities. Instead, it's far safer to blame yuppies/hipsters/the rich (which is codedly racist in and of itself, since we all know which race to which we're referring) and then scratch our heads as to why things don't change.
Excellent post Shizzles! Glad to see I'm not the only one that feels the same way. We now have to make Pookie into a believer and have him see the light at the end of the tunnel.

And for the record, it's not a race thing but more of a class thing. The lower the class, the lower living standards and quality of life they have and the more nusiance they create for the neighborhood/community.

Being categorized as "GHETTO" falls under the low class. So when I say the BRONX needs to be cleansed from GHETTO people in order to become a more desirable and family friendly borough, I mean they are expendable (useless) and serve no purpose in our society. Therefore, they need to get dealt with and removed from the borough.

The Bronx (class wise) is NOT deversified enough. The scale leans too much on the poor/low class/ghetto side. Too many thugs, gangstas and hoodrats live in the Borough. That needs to change ASAP. There aren't enough affluent or upper-middle class folks living in the Bronx to counter the ghetto/low class. The largest cluster of affluent people in the Bronx are in Riverdale.

When you mention the word Bronx to any outsider, the first thoughts that pop up in their heads are NOT Riverdale and how quiet and beautiful it is, they automatically think of Hunts Point, Highbridge, crime, prositution, drugs, crackheads, projects, and it being a runned-down, welfare borough full of ghetto people that don't know how to act. To sum it up, they think a bunch of animals live in the Bronx. Is that the reputation you want for the Bronx? Don't you think this reputation alone is enough to DETER classier people from moving into the Bronx?

Now think about it for a second...say you're a middle-class family with 2 kids new to NY that needs to move to the Bronx to be closer to work. How would you feel if every inch of the Bronx that you went to (except Riverdale-too expensive) to see vacant apartments was infested with grafitti, drugs, excessive hanging out, loud and rowdy people? Would you want to raise a family in those conditions? Would you want your kids to be influenced by these neighborhood people? I'm sure most of you with common sense would say no. So why bash the upper-middle class family looking to move to the Bronx and call them YUPPIES (as if its a bad thing) and make them feel unwanted in the Bronx?

This here is a classic case of GOOD vs. EVIL. Why be sympathetic to the "evil" GHETTO people (who are the ones who created the undesirableness of the neighborhood) and advocate for them saying that its not fair if they get priced-out, evicted or displaced. That they have to live somewhere.

Then turn around and try to stick it to the new "good" middle-class transplant who represents positivity and change for the Bronx.

If anything, the middle-class family in this case should have more RIGHTS as to moving in to the area over the current GHETTO residents since they represent positivity while the GHETTO residents should lose many of their RIGHTS since they represent negativity and are guilty of creating this monster we know as the "hood".

Last edited by victorfox; 01-31-2010 at 02:40 PM..
 
Old 01-31-2010, 03:55 PM
 
Location: Bed-stuy/Clinton Hill
953 posts, read 1,415,018 times
Reputation: 479
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shizzles View Post
One of the few common sense posts in this thread.

To me, this has zero to do with color and everything to do with class, behavior and redeeming a borough that's been used as a dumping ground for the last half century. The Bronx should ideally be a middle/working class haven for all types, like it was pre 1950s. Thankfully, there is now a flow of hardworking immigrants of all stripes slowly but surley remaking areas.

Alot of people throw the race card whenever people get truthful about the inner-city-hip-hop-ghetto lifestyle. Mod cut: personal attackPlenty of African, Dominican, Chinese and Irish have been able to hold it down the right way within the Bronx, so why can't the natives?

Call it insensitive, call it bigoted, call it whatever, but ask any middle class family in this country and they'll tell you there is no way in hell they'll move to some tenement where kids sit on steps smoking doobies and howling at girls. They're not going to put up with walls, trains and neighborhoods painted up from top to bottom with tags and Mod cut. They're not going to send their kids to schools w/metal detectors and 50% graduation rates. And all this comes w/ the benefit of sending over 50% of your post-federal tax paycheck to NYS/NYC to pay for the people who do the ish I just described. It's a big theme on this board to bemoan the loss of classic, working class NY. Yet no one here ('cept Fox) has the gumbtion to bring up the un-PC realites as to why urban living has fallen out of flavor w/ the American middle class both in NY and most cities. Instead, it's far safer to blame yuppies/hipsters/the rich (which is codedly racist in and of itself, since we all know which race to which we're referring) and then scratch our heads as to why things don't change.
As far as the comparison of the natives vs new immigrants, you'd have to look at what was going on in the city when they migrated there from Puerto Rico and the South. Alot of policies both liberal (mayor lindsay) and conservative (private sector banking policies) along with other changing dynamics (loss of manufacturing which employed many AA's and PR's, Robert Moses and his 'urban renewal', Cross Bronx Expswy) alot of these things were a combination, a perfect storm that created the hellscape that was the South Bronx during those times. The immigrants and some of the newcomers are a revitilizing force, but credit must be given to those who stuck through it all and worked hard against overwhelming odds to try and make their neighborhoods visible while besieged by decay and crime. Even in its darkest days many of the residents tried hard to organize and make changes like the Bananna Kelly group in South East Bronx, so I would give credit where it is due.
 
Old 01-31-2010, 07:36 PM
 
217 posts, read 393,695 times
Reputation: 281
I doubt the relevancy of the actions of any specific New Yorker (like Lindsay or Moses) to the issue at hand. What happened to New York happened to pretty much every other major northern city. And I'll mellow out a bit and remind everyone that in addition to the push of the declining urban neighborhoods, there certainly was the irresistible pull of suburbia. Despair as you may over the plight of the Bronx, I hope none of you would deny that living in a suburban tract house, small and cheaply made as it may have been, was vastly preffered to living in a dark working-class walk-up apartment by the overwhelming majority of young working class families at the time.

Suburbia was a BETTER choice, housing-wise. And even today, notice how housing quality correlates with the desirability of a neighborhood. Ghetto neighborhoods where working-class apartment buildings dominate remain firmly ghettoes, while ghettoes in brownstone neighborhoods turn yuppier and yuppier with each passing year.
 
Old 01-31-2010, 10:02 PM
 
178 posts, read 257,880 times
Reputation: 149
*Pats you on the head*

"Excellent post Shizzles! Glad to see I'm not the only one that feels the same way. We now have to make Pookie into a believer and have him see the light at the end of the tunnel."

Ha, fat chance.

"And for the record, it's not a race thing but more of a class thing. The lower the class, the lower living standards and quality of life they have and the more nusiance they create for the neighborhood/community."

ehh.


"Being categorized as "GHETTO" falls under the low class. So when I say the BRONX needs to be cleansed from GHETTO people in order to become a more desirable and family friendly borough, I mean they are expendable (useless) and serve no purpose in our society. Therefore, they need to get dealt with and removed from the borough."

The fact that you can't see what's wrong with this is the problem. Change borough to country and this sounds like 1930s Nazi propaganda.

"The Bronx (class wise) is NOT deversified enough. The scale leans too much on the poor/low class/ghetto side. Too many thugs, gangstas and hoodrats live in the Borough. That needs to change ASAP. There aren't enough affluent or upper-middle class folks living in the Bronx to counter the ghetto/low class. The largest cluster of affluent people in the Bronx are in Riverdale."

I don't disagree with this.

"When you mention the word Bronx to any outsider, the first thoughts that pop up in their heads are NOT Riverdale and how quiet and beautiful it is, they automatically think of Hunts Point, Highbridge, crime, prositution, drugs, crackheads, projects, and it being a runned-down, welfare borough full of ghetto people that don't know how to act. "

*Shrugs* This is a good thing to me. Let people be ignorant, it just keeps my rent down and my neighborhood unpretentious and untampered by greedy self-interested developers . I don't want my borough to be like Brooklyn with its phony hipster culture or Harlem with its block-by-block inconsistencies and racial tensions between natives and newcomers. The solution to the issues in the Bronx isn't importing outsiders. It's tough love on crime, housing development, commercial development, greening, community organizing, etc. All this is happening as we speak.

and FYI, I live in Hunts Point and it's hardly a rundown hotbed for prostitution etc. anymore or at least not like back in the day when HBO did that documentary here. I think you need to actually walk around the hood cause to me it sounds like you haven't actually been here any time recently.

"To sum it up, they think a bunch of animals live in the Bronx. Is that the reputation you want for the Bronx? Don't you think this reputation alone is enough to DETER classier people from moving into the Bronx?""

Yup, because in this city there's never any balance. You see how Harlem went from looking like the South Bronx to the UWS in just 10 years. The "outsiders" think like you - everyone in the Bronx is just a useless ghetto squatter and it's up to them to "save" the borough. Sorry but I don't want to live around people that think that way. There's enough people that already live here and (gasp) are from here that are contributing to the overall improvement. It's insulting and sad how you can't see how the existing population here is more complex and dynamic than just being...ghetto.

(actually, I did see 2 white/European females in the hood at a fried chicken spot tonight in Mott Haven, people are definetly picking up interest in the Bronx generally)

"Now think about it for a second...say you're a middle-class family with 2 kids new to NY that needs to move to the Bronx to be closer to work. How would you feel if every inch of the Bronx that you went to (except Riverdale-too expensive) to see vacant apartments was infested with grafitti, drugs, excessive hanging out, loud and rowdy people?"

lol, like 80% of the northern Bronx is nice and has some of the cheapest rents and co-op prices in the city. Anyone that thinks Riverdale is the only viable neighborhood here is just uninformed and unwilling to see people/areas beyond the way they're unfairly painted with broad brush.


" Would you want to raise a family in those conditions? Would you want your kids to be influenced by these neighborhood people? I'm sure most of you with common sense would say no. So why bash the upper-middle class family looking to move to the Bronx and call them YUPPIES (as if its a bad thing) and make them feel unwanted in the Bronx?"

Because they move to our neighborhoods and think they're better than us. They think we don't value family, hard-work etc. they think we're useless and expendable (your woods) that they're here to "save" the neighborhood. It's condescending and divisive.

"This here is a classic case of GOOD vs. EVIL. Why be sympathetic to the "evil" GHETTO people (who are the ones who created the undesirableness of the neighborhood) "

*Ahem* City policy created the undesirableness.

"and advocate for them saying that its not fair if they get priced-out, evicted or displaced. That they have to live somewhere.
Then turn around and try to stick it to the new "good" middle-class transplant who represents positivity and change for the Bronx."

Addressed this.

"If anything, the middle-class family in this case should have more RIGHTS as to moving in to the area over the current GHETTO residents since they represent positivity while the GHETTO residents should lose many of their RIGHTS since they represent negativity and are guilty of creating this monster we know as the "hood".

This is just silly, man. & it's all subjective, really. The transplants represent as many negatives and positives to me.
 
Old 01-31-2010, 11:54 PM
 
461 posts, read 1,200,968 times
Reputation: 312
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pookie Jenkins View Post
Let people be ignorant, it just keeps my rent down and my neighborhood unpretentious and untampered by greedy self-interested developers . I don't want my borough to be like Brooklyn with its phony hipster culture or Harlem with its block-by-block inconsistencies and racial tensions between natives and newcomers.

Ah ha...Pookie's true "hidden" agenda surfaces and I knew it all alone if you look back and read my older posts. Man, I should become a psychic on how well I read people's mind. Specifically Pookie.

Mod cutNot a big deal to you. But it's a BIG DEAL to me AND everyone else who wishes to enjoy their apartment and neighborhood without hearing gun shots or having a bunch of thugs hanging out selling drugs in front their building while acting all loud and rowdy.

Mod cutIt's not about me, its about my family. I grew up in the "hood" and managed not to wind up in Rikers or that dude in the street that sells bootleg cds and dvds.

You also said you don't want the Bronx to become how Harlem is now. So how is Harlem now? Hmmm...let's see. Harlem is a much safer and more desirable place to live NOW. Thats how Harlem is. And do you know how it got that way? By evicting, pricing out and displacing the GHETTO people who were trouble makers and made it ghetto in the first place. They removed the cancer from the body. The body being Harlem. The same concept needs to apply to the Bronx for the borough to prosper.

Last edited by Viralmd; 02-01-2010 at 07:54 AM.. Reason: Personal attack, rude.
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