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Old 10-17-2007, 01:00 PM
 
Location: Bronx, NY
1,526 posts, read 5,058,344 times
Reputation: 299

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Quote:
Originally Posted by apvbguy View Post
the xbronx did not doom the bronx, the flight to suburbia did, most of the west bronx at that time consisted of older pre war building and tenements. They really weren't too nice and once people could afford to leave they did, leaving behind the less fortunate.

CoOP city did more to undermine what was left of the middle class than the building of the xbronx.

Caro's book is so slanted and has been outed as a one dimensional slam piece that it shouldn't even be cited.

you're about bright the bronx's heyday was from the 30's and ended in the 60's, by the 70's the last nails were being hammered into the coffin and fires finished the job.

here in 2007 some parts of the bronx are actually becoming viable to live in. but you need to be real careful there because one wrong turn can bring doom
The new expressways, plus the extension of the IRT to the Bronx in the early part of the 20th century set off a housing boom, esp around the Grand Concourse. Apts built then were state of the art by the day's standards--elevators (for one) and many other amenities that the "slums" of Manhattan/LES etc did not offer. Many of the new, more "monied" residents were Jewish, along with other whites who could afford it. Amenities also included doorman buildings, fireplaces in the lobby, canopies, etc etc. The Grand Concourse still has some of the largest example of Art Deco design in the city. Many of these gems remain intact, and need only some renovation (refinish floors, repair facades, etc) to be fully functional apts for the middle class (which they originally were intended for)

Coop city was likewise primarily Jewish at one time. I assume with the general decline of NYC--including Manhattan and the Bx--Coop City also changed.

I too thought coop city was now a lost cause, but I believe it is just starting to get better now.

White flight was a function of the fact that NYC was going bankrupt and the whole city was at an all time low. Those who could afford to do so moved to the burbs, and there was plenty of redlining keeping others who might be able to afford it out of the white areas.

Many people confuse cause and effect. The fact that whites moved out per se does not explain the whole decline of NYC. The fact that blacks and minorities moved in does not mean they were all criminals. Also remember that the Civil Rights laws only came into effect in the 60s. Discrimination was institutionalized and people fought and died for desegregatioin in the south, etc etc. Harlem was once a place for more well to do, educated, and cultured blacks to reside. People would go "slumming" to the Cotton Club etc on the weekends. Surely you must know about this era in Harlem's history.

The projects were a recipe for disaster. The same pattern was repeated in every major city across the country, with similar results. But in the case of NYC, it went from the "capital" of the country and center of the "world" to a hellhole in the space of about 20 to 30 years.

 
Old 10-17-2007, 01:04 PM
 
Location: Bronx, NY
1,526 posts, read 5,058,344 times
Reputation: 299
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rachael84 View Post
I wish I could have seen the Bronx when it was like this...


YouTube - A Bronx Tale - Tribute to a Classic

...Instead of the hood that I teach in right now.

(that's such a great movie by the way, I recommend watching it if you've never seen it).
But "A Bronx Tale" is also the story of gangsters and murder, mafioso, etc etc. The protagonist's father was a poor schlub driving a bus and "getting nowhere" due to his work ethic and moral scruples. This by you is some idyllic time?
 
Old 10-17-2007, 01:34 PM
 
1,080 posts, read 4,082,869 times
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A Bronx Tale.........I can relate to the movie because I used to hang out in that same area of the Bronx the movie was filmed in......the years 1961/62
my girlfriend and I would walk to Arthur Ave and visit with the guys that hung out around the corner from the Half Moom Pizza, the poolhall was on the second floor, back then with their greased back hair and white T shirts, black chino pants, they thought they were sooooo cool. And yes, the area in the movie was exactly the same. During the summer, we could walk from Arthur Ave to Fordham Rd and sit on the steps of Roosevelt HS and wave at the cars going by, guys in their convertibles would stop and talk, we'd get in the cars and go to White Castle up the road and then over to the Bontanical Gardens. Never in our wildest dreams did we worry about getting into any car
there was nothing to be afraid of........try that today and you'd wind up in a body bag.

There were mafia wannabee's back then, guys thinking their so tough, lots of threats, never no weapons. They were more afraid of me, then I was of them
I wouldn't back down for no one and still don't. Those days were days of innocence, the Bronx was a totally different place. The stores owners took pride in there stores, there were never any boxes/displays outside a store as on Fordham Rd. today. EVERYONE spoke English......there was no other language. Most of the area schools, were white, nearly everyone graduated
and everyone got a job after school ended. The girls usually got married and settled down and had 2 kids and sat in front of the buildings they lived and gossiped along with the other wives.

Sat./Sunday was time for going to the Paradise or other local movie theater
movies were .75 and you saw the main picture plus newsreels. There was a place on Kingsbridge called Jahns.......home of the Kitchen Sink......a huge ice cream thing that would feed 4 people, I think it cost 4.95......Jahn's long gone. Krums on the Concourse, with their fresh candy, nuts and the lunch counter......lower level there was another counter for ice cream, burned out in the early 60's, reopened for awhile than closed. And of course, Alexanders
where everyone went for their bargains.......bins filled with shoes, you'd have to dig through the bins to find matching sizes. There jewerly dept. was great
with great prices. At Christmas time, they would open the store early for the kids to do their shopping, from 8 to 10 the kids had the store to themselves and special prices, after all back then we didn't have lots of money to spend.

Yes, back then, the Bronx was good, I wish that those of you who weren't living there could close your eyes and try to envision what I lived and maybe you would understand how I feel, the Bronx of today is like a third world to me
and I can only hope that I live long enough to see it come back to some resembelence of what it was.
 
Old 10-17-2007, 02:44 PM
 
1,008 posts, read 3,236,045 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Songbird42 View Post
EVERYONE spoke English
And some Italian.
 
Old 10-17-2007, 02:46 PM
 
11,287 posts, read 16,804,919 times
Reputation: 5517
Quote:
the xbronx did not doom the bronx, the flight to suburbia did, most of the west bronx at that time consisted of older pre war building and tenements. They really weren't too nice and once people could afford to leave they did, leaving behind the less fortunate.
I do not understand how the forced displacement of at leat 500,000 people could not adversely affect the Bronx.
 
Old 10-17-2007, 02:55 PM
 
Location: Bronx, New York
3,057 posts, read 6,134,352 times
Reputation: 1229
Just remember....folks who want to "relive" the days of "Bronx Tale"; there was also the racial struggles back then, that the movie predicted, where you could ride a bike on the wrong side of town and catch a beatdown. Actually, not just racial, but general turf strife as well.

One thing I realized....people want the old days, but there was another side to those days! My thing on the old days is this....been there, done that! (good and bad!). Let's help New York to keep it movin'!
 
Old 10-17-2007, 03:00 PM
 
Location: Bronx, NY
2,806 posts, read 14,967,984 times
Reputation: 1071
If anyone is interested in this type of stuff, the rise and fall of American urban neighborhoods, I would highly reccomend a book called "The Old Neighborhood: What We Lost in the Great Suburban Migration, 1966-1999." (Amazon.com: The Old Neighborhood: What We Lost in the Great Suburban Migration, 1966-1999: Books: Ray Suarez) It was written by Ray Suarez, who is/was(?) a radio host on NPR. He looks at all of the older cities in America and notes how they collapsed. He goes thru all of the different issues, such as race, economics, and government policy, that led to the decline of American cities. He doesn't focus specifically on NYC, but he devotes a chapter to Brooklyn, as he is originally from Bensonhurst (he's not Italian though, his dad was Puerto Rican I think, and his mother was a WASP). It is really an excellent book, I can't reccomend it highly enough.
 
Old 10-17-2007, 03:04 PM
 
Location: Bronx, NY
2,806 posts, read 14,967,984 times
Reputation: 1071
What? As a white guy I can't walk freely probably in 2/3rds of the Bronx. Nothings changed in that regards, there's just less white people around these days.

Quote:
Originally Posted by scatman View Post
Just remember....folks who want to "relive" the days of "Bronx Tale"; there was also the racial struggles back then, that the movie predicted, where you could ride a bike on the wrong side of town and catch a beatdown. Actually, not just racial, but general turf strife as well.

One thing I realized....people want the old days, but there was another side to those days! My thing on the old days is this....been there, done that! (good and bad!). Let's help New York to keep it movin'!
 
Old 10-17-2007, 04:49 PM
 
Location: Atlantic Highlands NJ/Ponte Vedra FL/NYC
2,689 posts, read 2,846,212 times
Reputation: 328
Quote:
Originally Posted by Moth View Post
I do not understand how the forced displacement of at leat 500,000 people could not adversely affect the Bronx.
500k people???

where did you get that number from???
in the 60s when that road was built the population of the entire borough was less than 800k.
the actual number of displaced was between 20 to 40k people depending on which activist you believe. most of those buildings taken down were pre war walk ups and tenements, they were not really worth getting upset about. the big problem was relocation and disruption of people's lives. most of the people affected were on the poor side and couldn't afford to move away. the money they were offered was a pittance, nonetheless the benefits of the road far outweighs the costs borne almost 50 years ago
 
Old 10-17-2007, 05:37 PM
 
1,214 posts, read 1,650,211 times
Reputation: 880
I lived in NYC for about 30 years, and I still go back there to visit family.

The thing that really always amazed me is that the Bronx is probably the best economically located area in the USA - And it is not being utilized.

Those of you familiar with logistics and the geographic area know what I am talking about.

From a distribution perspective, the Bronx is centrally located among Westchester, Rockland and Fairfield Counties, Long Island, New Jersey and NYC. If a company wants to have the most practical location for a distribution warehouse - The Bronx is central to about 30 Million people.

There is Hunts Point, and other warehouse/distribution centers there - But not as many as there should be...

Who knows???...One day companies will start realizing this, and start investing there...And then the workers will realize that it is actually pretty well situated for travel to all those areas...There is a lot of potential there...
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