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Old 10-18-2007, 11:08 AM
 
6 posts, read 67,936 times
Reputation: 16

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After reading this thread I have a few comments I'd like to share.
1.) Those of you who blame the influx of immigrants to the Bronx for it's decline are incorrect.

Pretty much everyone who lives in NYC/The Bronx is not native to this part of the world. Many of our relatives came to this country and city within the past 100-250 years. So in essence we are all immigrants and or relatives of immigrants. Most of our families who came to this country were poor looking for better lives.

Throughout history each of these ethnic groups had their own enclaves which at one time was considered a Ghetto or a neighborhood you'd rather avoid and am sure prior to this these areas were well to do. Many of NYC's neighborhoods have gone back and forth from being considered a "bad" to a "good/nice" neighborhood. Examples: LES, Hell's Kitchen, W.80s, parts of Washington Heights, parts of Harlem, Coney Island, and parts of The Bronx (as attested by forum members).

What do you think Native Americans are saying about us and what we did to their beautiful land/country. We turned untouched forests into large polluted cities plagued by many social issues and displaced them all together.

2.) Similarities exist between what early settlers did to Native Americans and what Robert Moses and NYC's Adm did to poor individuals needing public assistance; reservations and projects. They segregated those that did not meet or exceed societies standards.

Even though Robert Moses may have had his own agenda at times he can be attributed to improvements to the city; Orchard Beach, NYC Parks, etc..

3.) Those of you who left your childhood neighborhoods for the suburbs are partly to blame for the decline in these areas. If you cared about your so called home you wouldn't have given up on these neighborhoods.

You should've held your ground and assisted in maintaining these areas. Instead you blame the next wave of immigrants for the decline meanwhile it was the economic condition of the 60s-80s and landlords that should be attributed to the decline not the people.

4.) NYC's Admin gave up on theses areas too. They turned around and constructing large complexes, projects, for those who could not keep up with societies standards by segregating them from the rest of the city.

Many of these large complexes are cities within cities which are left to fend for themselves and make due by any means necessary, which many of our forefathers did throughout history.

5.) By the way "Bronx Tale" was not filmed in Belmont/Arthur Ave. It was filmed in Astoria. There was a small part filmed on City Island.

All in all the city is on the rise, including The Bronx. People should embrace where they were raised, be proud and remember the good things about their neighborhoods. Be proactive and support local groups within these communities which in turn can educat new residents on local history and provide constructive activities for people to participate in.

I know I am proud to be a New Yorker, born and raised, and love all of my old neighborhoods!

Keep in mind our immigrant relatives were at one time looked down upon; British, Irish, Italian, Chinese, Africans/African Americans, Latino/as, Asian, Eastern Euorpean, etc... Stop perpetuating the cycle.

 
Old 10-18-2007, 11:20 AM
 
1,529 posts, read 1,973,625 times
Reputation: -80
Quote:
Originally Posted by scatman View Post
Just remember....folks who want to "relive" the days of "Bronx Tale"; there was also the racial struggles back then, that the movie predicted, where you could ride a bike on the wrong side of town and catch a beatdown. Actually, not just racial, but general turf strife as well.

One thing I realized....people want the old days, but there was another side to those days! My thing on the old days is this....been there, done that! (good and bad!). Let's help New York to keep it movin'!
Racism is still strong today as it's ever been.

The South Bronx is still declineing although some things have changed. You might see a building get rehabilitated but quickly be filled with low income tenents. You might see more people in an area once empty, but this has led to problems with overpopulation. As one thing improves, another serious problem popps up no better then the last. All becuase the root problems still exist strong as ever. In fact today even more people are effected.

Unfortunately today areas outside the South Bronx have declined or are on that track. However a few Bronx neighborhoods are holding out as they have for years.

It doesn't look good for the Bronx, this city or the future of this country at all.

On a nationwide scale our schools are not doing well. NYC is an example of a horrible school district. The Bronx takes that to another level. So many children live in poverty in the Bronx. So many families are homeless. Many broken families, unguided children. The Hip Hop mentality strong in these low income communities. This is the future of the Bronx and it does not look good at all. Uneducated, poor hostile upbringings combined with a Hip Hip mentality fueled by violence. And the same old problems continue, that is the harsh reality.
 
Old 10-18-2007, 11:50 AM
 
Location: Queens
841 posts, read 3,928,131 times
Reputation: 271
^Damn. I posted in another thread "The Bronx is going to get a lot worse before it gets better".
 
Old 10-18-2007, 04:19 PM
 
1,080 posts, read 4,083,953 times
Reputation: 597
Default When you live in my shoes

.) Those of you who left your childhood neighborhoods for the suburbs are partly to blame for the decline in these areas. If you cared about your so called home you wouldn't have given up on these neighborhoods.

You should've held your ground and assisted in maintaining these areas. Instead you blame the next wave of immigrants for the decline meanwhile it was the economic condition of the 60s-80s and landlords that should be attributed to the decline not the people.
////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////

My family home was bought by a illiterate slimmy bast**d, who came in and jacked the rent up like crazy, back in 64 we were paying $150 a month for a 3bedroom/1 bath......with garage, after the sale of the home, slimmy bast**d wanted $400 a month, plus $100 for the garage. This is the home that my father was born in, I was born in.....do you think we wanted to leave, hell, no. My folks had just finished building a home in NJ to be their retirement home, cost $11,000 for a 3/2/1 taxes $300.00 a year. Mortgage payment was $98.00 a month. We moved out that weekend, never to return.
Slimmy bast**d, tore down the garage, and turned it into a slum, renting to the lowest of low that destroyed the whole place. Today, that property is valued at $380,000 and looks like a hellhole with illegal apts in the basement.
So did we want to move, absolutely not, were we pushed out, yes. Today, I have enough money to buy that home if for sale, could I turn around the neighborhood, hell no......its too far gone and one white girl isn't gonna do a hell of alot.
 
Old 10-18-2007, 06:38 PM
 
14 posts, read 89,161 times
Reputation: 13
Default I REALLY can't go home again.....

I grew up at 2525 Aqueduct Avenue, the Kingsbridge section of the West Bronx. Mostly Jewish. We had a park across the street and it was lovely. I remember Jan's, Alexanders, Krums, Horn & Hardart, Weber's Bakery, Tolentine. A family neighborhood, back in the late 50's, early 60's.

Imagine my horror when I read that 2525 Aqueduct had a roof collapse, and that everyone had to be evacuated. I don't know what exactly what was to blame for this accident. Immediately I felt angry and hurt; not quite sure why. It's as if a part of my childhood is really gone.

Will my building be demolished? What will be its fate?

Anyone know?

Last edited by bronxie; 10-18-2007 at 06:42 PM.. Reason: addendum
 
Old 10-19-2007, 12:34 AM
 
Location: NM
32 posts, read 83,838 times
Reputation: 21
The Bronx is not heading downward, I can assure you since I have grown up in a time when the Bronx was burning. If you really want to do your homework instead of constantly looking at the artificial aspect of what you see and actually dig deep. There a dozens of non-profit organizations trying to create a Bronx to be proud to live in and the real estate market is taking notice.
Did you know that Congressman Serrano was able to get millions in support of creating a Greenway for the Bronx River? Did you realize there are more and more Co-op's being developed in order for lower income residents to take control of their own buildings and become proud of what they all own. This is what the Bronx is turning into. If more ppl would just stop blaming everyone else around them and stop saying things like, "How can one person make a difference?" You can't make a difference because your just standing there criticizing when you should be there helping create change. I am one of those kids who went to those horrible city schools with crappy school books and constant school fights but I never let that beat me into a mindless drone blaming everyone and everything around me.
Yes the area is not perfect but change is not like an instant message, it does not happen immediately it happens in slow process. Its insane to expect something like changing a place with of millions of inhabitants to happen so quickly.
As for Hispanics or Blacks creating the problem I suggest understanding these other issues to be better informed such as: Displacement of the poor, Creation of poorly maintained (projects) Housing to contain these poorer individuals, Economical decline of the Bronx, Public schools inadequately funded, creation of separation of races. These are just a few reasons why the Bronx grew into a decline and much more. So to say 'those ppl' ruined your neighborhood is I believe theoretically untrue. Its not always based on what you see but what is beneath what you see.

Last edited by Agrotera; 10-19-2007 at 12:36 AM.. Reason: grammar
 
Old 10-19-2007, 09:28 AM
 
1,080 posts, read 4,083,953 times
Reputation: 597
Default 1996 in the Bronx

Let me tell you a story the year 1996, I was longing to return to my "roots"
so to speak and took a ride into the Bronx, it was a Sunday, figured it would be quiet and I could explore all the places I remembered as a kid. First stop was 183rd St. and Creston, where I was born, the house was still there as was the stores that I shopped in, but the people I grew up with long gone, anyway, I had a video camera with me, and started video taping the house
etc. there were a group of "those ppl" on the corner and a group of "those girls" in front of the house next door, they "girls" asked me what I was doing
told them I was born in that house, oh yea, well we live here now was the answer, as they came closer and asked me if I had any money, I backed up
into the street, camera in hand, and keys to car ready to run, except that group of "those ppl" were right behind me, breathing on my neck, saying, hmm
white meat ready for the taking.............turned around and showed them my
Government ID and told them to back off......."those ppl" were ready to take me down, they backed away and I continued to video tape. "Those ppl" weren't going to intimadate me, no way......sure, they thought they were big, bad and black, but hell, I've dealt with worse. So you tell me, you think if this girl moved back, that I wouldn't get some resistance from "those ppl"
sure as hell I would, they'd try to run me out of town, as they did back in 96.
BTW, been back since then, hasn't changed one bit, "those ppl" own my birth home and its a slum, people renting there are not looking to make the neighborhood better, in fact, its now 10 times worse.

PS I now own a co-op in the Almagmated (Sedgwick Ave) and at least "those ppl" treat us, as we treat them, and they have pride in owning their places.

Last edited by Songbird42; 10-19-2007 at 09:31 AM.. Reason: forgot information
 
Old 10-19-2007, 10:36 AM
 
Location: Confines of the 101 Precinct
19,136 posts, read 32,681,385 times
Reputation: 7573
Quote:
Originally Posted by Songbird42 View Post
Let me tell you a story the year 1996, I was longing to return to my "roots"
so to speak and took a ride into the Bronx, it was a Sunday, figured it would be quiet and I could explore all the places I remembered as a kid. First stop was 183rd St. and Creston, where I was born, the house was still there as was the stores that I shopped in, but the people I grew up with long gone, anyway, I had a video camera with me, and started video taping the house
etc. there were a group of "those ppl" on the corner and a group of "those girls" in front of the house next door, they "girls" asked me what I was doing
told them I was born in that house, oh yea, well we live here now was the answer, as they came closer and asked me if I had any money, I backed up
into the street, camera in hand, and keys to car ready to run, except that group of "those ppl" were right behind me, breathing on my neck, saying, hmm
white meat ready for the taking.............turned around and showed them my
Government ID and told them to back off......."those ppl" were ready to take me down, they backed away and I continued to video tape. "Those ppl" weren't going to intimadate me, no way......sure, they thought they were big, bad and black, but hell, I've dealt with worse. So you tell me, you think if this girl moved back, that I wouldn't get some resistance from "those ppl"
sure as hell I would, they'd try to run me out of town, as they did back in 96.
BTW, been back since then, hasn't changed one bit, "those ppl" own my birth home and its a slum, people renting there are not looking to make the neighborhood better, in fact, its now 10 times worse.

PS I now own a co-op in the Almagmated (Sedgwick Ave) and at least "those ppl" treat us, as we treat them, and they have pride in owning their places.
damn that sucks....but personally i myself would be a little paranoid at first if i saw you taking pictures of my house....you never know, maybe they missed a mortgage payment and were nervous.....sorry 2 hear u went thru that though.
 
Old 10-19-2007, 10:59 AM
 
81 posts, read 561,747 times
Reputation: 44
In1979- good points in your posts. Everyone needs to realize there were a myriad of issues that contributed to the downfall. No one person, group, factor is to blame.

I guess my family can even say we contributed to the decline as well. We're an African American family. My grandparents lived on University Ave back in the 1950s and my aunt lived somewhere in the South Bronx. It was a great place to live back then. However, things changed in the 1960s and our family fled to Long Island. Then we left LI in the 1990s and one set moved to Florida and the other set moved to Pennsylvania. I moved back to the Bronx from LI back in the 1990s to the Morris Park section. Unfortunately, we're starting a family next year and the Bronx is not where I'd like to raise my family. Now we're "fleeing" to CT. It's a unfortunate cycle that I don't see changing anytime soon.
 
Old 10-19-2007, 02:29 PM
 
Location: Mott Haven
2,978 posts, read 3,106,742 times
Reputation: 209
To Songbird42, the originator of this thread:

Your initial comment is very telling and really just a way to assign blame to what you call the savagery that has occured to your supposedly beloved and idyllic Bronx between 1947 and 1964. How is it that the Borough was so wonderful, and everyone so happy, but every race/ethnic group knew to stay in their own "hood." In fact, according to you, "the blacks stayed below the 70s and didn't venture to the North for fear of getting their a** beat." Is this some sort of accomplishment? A tribute to the wonderful place that was the Bronx? Sounds like a great place to me! Violently keeping a whole race of people in check has always been at the top of my list when looking for a nice place to live.

This leads me directly to my next point. You wonder whether "those that were the poorest felt the need to vandalize/burn/rob and beat, because they had less than everyone else." Considering the blacks, and likely anyone else of color, would get their "a**" beat if they got off at the wrong stop on the train, it is clear then that segregation was obvious, promoted, accepted, and rampant in housing. That being said, it is likely then that the same rampant and accepted discrimination was also rampant and accepted in employment, education, and every other aspect of daily life. Needless to say, the colored folk could not get decent jobs, could not get into decent schools, and were otherwise shunned and relegated to the worse of everything. Hence..the creation of ghettos thanks to folks like you who were so proud of their exclusionary neighborhoods and intolerance.

How long do you think anyone would tolerate these injustices? Is it that surprising that the blackout caused people to loot for the things that they could not have, could not afford, and were essentially prevented from acquiring, due to...guess who...people like you who saw them as a plague and scourge just for being themselves. You may not believe that you subscribe to these outward racist beliefs, but your idea that the Bronx was such a wonderful place because the colored folks stuck to their hood and knew their place reveals the truth.

So the Bronx, and other parts of the city, burned. White flight exacerbated the situation (and it wasn't really white flight as much as the fact that they were the only ones allowed to have money/wealth..so that money went out the door with them). And let's not forget the government's planned shrinkage for many of these areas by eliminating basic city services like garbage pickup. Wonder why people in parts of the Bronx throw trash all over the streets....hmm..maybe they were accustomed to it...just a thought.

So to answer your question: "Did they really need to bring a whole borough to its knees like savages, did it make them feel better." The answer is yes, the entire borough had to be brought down to its knees like savages, because that is the seed that was sown, however it did not make anyone feel better as the problems did not change. Did you expect people to just happily go along with the rampant racisim and hate forever? You take people, house them in isolated ghettos, refuse to integrate them into society, do not educatedthem, do not allow them opportunities to participate in the wealth and all that is great about this society, and then act surprised when they revolt?

Furthermore, it is extremely hypocritical and ignorant when you state: "When I see and hear gangster gangbangers talking sh** about this being their hood, and they rule the Bronx, I want to scream and holler and tell them to go back to where they came from, because they didn't originate in my hometown." I guess it was okay back in the 50's and 60s to be a white gangbanger and talk about this being your hood and making sure all those black and colored folks stayed out of your neighborhood. That's when the Bronx was such a great place..thanks to all those white gangbangers protecting their nieghbohood huh? Those colored folks knew, after all, not to travel North because they would get their "as*" beat right? I wonder who it was that was beating all those black people for getting off at the wrong train stop, or looking for an apt in the "wrong" neighborhood, or going to school in the "wrong" school. Apparently it was okay when white's did it to keep colored people in their place, but not okay when colored people act the same way? It's only unconscionable when colored people act that way huh? They are not from YOUR hometown after all....and it is yours after all right?

Your beliefs and blatant racism is clear, and there is not doubt that whether it is 1955 or 2005, you still want "those" people out of your nieghborhood. Somethings don't change.
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