The Decline of the Bronx (New York, Nassau: environment, relocate, military)

[Guywithacause]

7thfloor..I dont' think it was a NECESSITY...it was more about convenience. Swooping around via the Bruckner or Deegan is hardly an inconvenience and adds just a few miles to the total trip...so it was not NEEDED by any stretch...but it was seen as yet another necessary highway by the great highway builder Moses.

[scatman]

Originally Posted by apvbguy

1. transportation in brooklyn is a mess, your plan wouldn't be feasable
2. I10 caused katrina? a bit simple minded if you ask me

No, I was saying that if I-10 went through the French Quarter, the cultural heart of that city, the only thing keeping New Orleans afloat before and after that storm, would have been destroyed. That's why I say that Katrina would not have been necessary. I-10 going through the heart of the Quarter would have destroyed N.O. long before that storm. But the powers that be in Louisiana decided to reject Moses recommendations and build I-10 is just north of the Quarter, thank goodness!

As for Brooklyn, do you know Moses wanted a Cross Brooklyn Expressway, to run from the Verazzano to Bushwick (SW to NE, NE to SW) The results....
1) Flatbush as we know it........DONE!
2) Brooklyn College.....DONE!
3) Midwood.....DONE!

Now, back to the Bronx!

[apvbguy]

Originally Posted by scatman

As for Brooklyn, do you know Moses wanted a Cross Brooklyn Expressway, to run from the Verazzano to Bushwick (SW to NE, NE to SW) The results....
1) Flatbush as we know it........DONE!
2) Brooklyn College.....DONE!
3) Midwood.....DONE!

Now, back to the Bronx!

it was partially built, and like I said transport in brooklyn is a mess, and is one of many reason why all the shipping and indusrty pulled out of there and moved to NJ

[Guywithacause]

Yes Scatman..most people do not know that there was a plan for a Cross Brooklyn Expressway..and who knows what kind of mess that would have created for sooooo many nieghborhoods and communities.

[scatman]

Originally Posted by apvbguy

it was partially built, and like I said transport in brooklyn is a mess, and is one of many reason why all the shipping and indusrty pulled out of there and moved to NJ

I do think the pullouts had more to do with corporate tax breaks/lower corporate taxes in Jersey and other regions, as opposed to lack of highways!

Remember, too, this is a union town! Forget Jersey, many of those ships and industries would go to Southern cities/ports to avoid expensive union wages. Lack of higways, IMO, are at the bottom of the list of reasons for them pullouts!

[scatman]

Man, riding along that Cross Bronx is a trip! I'd say that 90% of the time I get on there, it's bumper to bumper!

Wanna talk about robbing the poorest borough in NY???? Them $4.50 tolls on the TB and WS are a double and triple trip!!!!!!!!

[Guywithacause]

lol...yeah seems that the CBE is an eternal traffic jam. And guess what..all those tolls are going up....as they keep climbing..people will be rethinking the amount of gas, tolls, time, effort it takes to commute from suburbs and accelerate the move back into the city limits..Bronx included....it is all unfolding as we speak!!!

[apvbguy]

Originally Posted by scatman

I do think the pullouts had more to do with corporate tax breaks/lower corporate taxes in Jersey and other regions, as opposed to lack of highways!

Remember, too, this is a union town! Forget Jersey, many of those ships and industries would go to Southern cities/ports to avoid expensive union wages. Lack of higways, IMO, are at the bottom of the list of reasons for them pullouts!

the unions are in NJ and are just as powerful as NY, the NY/nj port is the busiest on the east coast. think of it, you unload a ship, what do you do with it after it comes off the ship? you put it on a truck or rail and move it along, brooklyn's lack of infrastructure, their not modernizing is a big part of why industry abandoned brooklyn

[apvbguy]

Originally Posted by Guywithacause

lol...yeah seems that the CBE is an eternal traffic jam. And guess what..all those tolls are going up....as they keep climbing..people will be rethinking the amount of gas, tolls, time, effort it takes to commute from suburbs and accelerate the move back into the city limits..Bronx included....it is all unfolding as we speak!!!

some might move back, but until the bronx can offer safe streets, good schools, wide open space like those found in the suburbs, it really can't compete, all higher tolls and higher fuel prices will do is increase the prices people pay because those higher costs will be passed along, and because you will pay those higher prices there is little economic incentive to move there

[scatman]

Originally Posted by apvbguy

the unions are in NJ and are just as powerful as NY, the NY/nj port is the busiest on the east coast. think of it, you unload a ship, what do you do with it after it comes off the ship? you put it on a truck or rail and move it along, brooklyn's lack of infrastructure, their not modernizing is a big part of why industry abandoned brooklyn

Matter of fact, as I said, they're not even going to Jersey anymore. They (not just the ones leaving Brooklyn) went/are going to places in the South, now, to avoid union wages (shoot, I would stretch that out and say they're going overseas, where that cheap labor is at!). This isn't just a 'leave Brooklyn' thing. NYC as a whole lost a lot of that.
1) Cheaper labor in South ports, now overseas (don't have to deal with Local So-and-So in foreign land)
2) More space elsewhere. NYC, as great as it is, IS one crowded town. Even it's Harbor!
3) South, for the most part, is non-union and overseas is, some say, sweatshop wages! Oops, I'm repeating Number 1).
4) Corprate tax breaks from other regions!
5) Lack of highways are a factor, but not like the four above!

Oh, good discussion, by the way! And although we disagree on the CBE, I do agree that many of those tenaments bulldozed were no paradise! But have you read Jacobs? She has a interesting theory on 'unslumming', which was her way of improving those tenaments.