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Old 01-16-2013, 10:55 AM
 
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I'd guess the Abyssinian Baptist church would be an example of an church that was started by NY's slave descendants since the church was started in 1808. This had to be before the southern migrations so the people starting this church could have been former slaves and children of slaves from the Harlem area.


History | Abyssinian
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Old 01-16-2013, 01:22 PM
 
Location: Inis Fada
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Forest_Hills_Daddy View Post
Would you advise bringing a dousing rod?
Either you believe or you don't. I respect this friend's ability.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I747 using Tapatalk 2
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Old 01-16-2013, 02:47 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Mhundred View Post
Most people think of US slavery in the southern context with masses of people working on plantations. Northern slavery was much different and not nearly as widespread. As there was no need for large numbers of slaves as there were no plantations. Not to mention that slavery was ended a good deal earlier than in the south obviously.

From what i understand new york did not have a very prominent black population until the 1st great southern migration period at the turn of the century.
It is a fact that NYC was one of the largest slave importing ports. There were also many slaves on plantations in the surrounding areas. Slavery ended earlier in the North, and its likely that many were sold to the southern states as cotton began to develop, and the need for slaves began to drop, prior to its ending in NY. But NY/NJ was hardly marginal in the slave trade in the 18th century.
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Old 01-16-2013, 03:03 PM
 
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Originally Posted by bluedog2 View Post
There is a former slave plantation on Shelter Island that is still owned by the original slave holding family.
It's called Sylvester Manor:
Our History « SYLVESTER MANOR
Unfortunately, the system won't allow me to give you a point - but, wow, surprising tidbit of information!
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Old 01-16-2013, 03:56 PM
 
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Originally Posted by OhBeeHave View Post
Either you believe or you don't. I respect this friend's ability.

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I do. Which is why I asked about the DR. Some people who visit cemeteries like to bring them since it can amplify their abilities.
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Old 01-16-2013, 06:32 PM
 
Location: Inis Fada
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Originally Posted by Forest_Hills_Daddy View Post
I do. Which is why I asked about the DR. Some people who visit cemeteries like to bring them since it can amplify their abilities.
Sorry -- so many non believers make jokes; I thought you were breaking my chops.

If we go again, I will have to bring this up.

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Old 01-18-2013, 01:39 PM
 
Location: NY,NY
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Originally Posted by DAS View Post
Hamilton Heights section of Harlem was the Hamilton Grange Plantation. This plantation was owned by Alexander Hamilton one of our Founding Fathers, and our First Secretary of the Treasury. He was also a racially mixed person born on the island of Nevis. His official portrait is rumored to be "whitenized".

Bradhurst Ave in Harlem runs north and is adjacent to the section that was Hamilton Grange Plantation. This Ave was part of the land owned by the Bradhurst family, consisting of the Bradhurst Plantation, and was adjacent to the Hamilton.

Across the Harlem river was Morris Plantation now the Mott Haven, Melrose, and Morrisania sections of the Bronx. The Morris family owned this land.
First I have heard of Hamilton owning slaves and that property being the center of a "plantation".

Do you have any references?
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Old 01-18-2013, 03:07 PM
 
Location: NY,NY
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Originally Posted by Motion View Post
I'd guess the Abyssinian Baptist church would be an example of an church that was started by NY's slave descendants since the church was started in 1808. This had to be before the southern migrations so the people starting this church could have been former slaves and children of slaves from the Harlem area.


History | Abyssinian
No, it and all the other OLD churches MOVED to Harlem. The Southern Migrants came much later, and had little to do with the founding of Black NYC.

Of course, there was a LOT of mixing between Black NYers and Southern NYers, BUT in essence they are two distinct communities, then and now.

VERY similar, as an analogy, to the Dutch descended Knickerbockers and the English descended (and German) WASPs. Much mixing between the groups, and all makeup the foundation of NYC, but each maintaining its own distinctiveness, as well as institutions.

So, too, the original descendants and the later black migrants.

During the early decades of NYC, most of the black population and NYC's population in general was downtown below (today's) Canal Street. The Race Riots were a pivotal event in the history of NYC, and especially in the history of Blacks in NYC.

After the riots, blacks fled! Some fled uptown, first up the westside, suceedingly, Greenwich Village, Chelsea, Hell's Kitchen. The churches often leading the way with the population following. Finally, the churches went to Harlem, as did the population.

Similarly, some of the churches and population FLED to Brooklyn, creating Weeksville and Black Bed Stuy. Note the great black churches, like Concord Baptist and others.

If not for the civil war Race Riots, the history of NYC and its black population may have been quite different. There very likely w/h been less racial segragation, and Harlem as it came to be may never have existed, and perhaps neither Black Bed Stuy.

If I recall, Our Kind Of People, outlines the progression of the black churches and population.

*****

Concord Baptist History (started as an offshoot of Abysinnia):
- History
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Old 01-18-2013, 03:56 PM
 
Location: NY,NY
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Originally Posted by OhBeeHave View Post
One word of advice -- if you or anyone in your party is has psychic sensitivities, they may be overwhelmed. One friend witnessed several spirits -- most were docile, one was aggressive and chased her from a section built to look like waterfront dock.


I wonder why the "spirits" waited for the dig up and the museum to be created, before they started chasing people around???




Quote:
Originally Posted by caribny View Post
It is a fact that NYC was one of the largest slave importing ports. There were also many slaves on plantations in the surrounding areas. Slavery ended earlier in the North, and its likely that many were sold to the southern states as cotton began to develop, and the need for slaves began to drop, prior to its ending in NY. But NY/NJ was hardly marginal in the slave trade in the 18th century.
"The *need* for slaves began to drop". Why was that?

********

Descendants:

Below is a documentary which details a black enclave of vacationers. It highlits the lifestyle of upper middle/blacks, the majority of whom were/are NYers, "descendants"!

The interesting thing is NO they haven't disappeared into the greater southern black originated community, but rather, as a *group*, they have faded as a consequence of INTERGRATION!!

Where once there was a vibrant community, bonded by Summers in Oak Bluffs and Sag Harbor (yup, blacks in the Hamptons), and institutions like Jack and Jill, and black colleges, fraternities and sororities, now diluted by Intergration AND Gentrification (as the old neighborhoods and homes are *cashed* out).

Independent Lens . A PLACE OF OUR OWN . The Film | PBS

A Place of Our Own: The Black Bougie Class | Black! Not White Dipped in Chocolate

Jill Nelson of the same family:

I read her first book, "Volunteer Slavery".

Amazon.com: Jill Nelson: Books, Biography, Blog, Audiobooks, Kindle
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Old 01-18-2013, 04:59 PM
DAS
 
2,532 posts, read 6,847,418 times
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Originally Posted by jcoltrane View Post
First I have heard of Hamilton owning slaves and that property being the center of a "plantation".

Do you have any references?
I have done my research, and I have taken African American and Native American History courses that were exclusive to NYC History. It is fun to research. Check out the Schomberg Center for research in Black History located on Lenox Ave near W. 136th St, and NY Historical Society 170 Central Park West.

Research the The papers of Alexander Hamilton

I think that there is now an intense effort to make it look like there were no Black people in Harlem before around 1880. And that there were very few until 1945. Just my opinion. However thankfully while I'm not old enough to know anyone that was around when Alexander Hamilton was. I did know old people that had great-grandparents that arrived in Harlem in the 1800's and those times were very different and a person had to be careful where they lived depending on which group they belonged to, no matter what group that was. Many felt comfortable enough to live in Harlem from the start.

I used to be able to find more internet sites on Old historical Harlem. Starting from when the dutch arrived now there is very little. If you are really interested, visit the NY Historical Society and the Schomberg.

There was a group of students and teachers of different ethnic backgrounds protesting a couple of years ago at the African Burial Ground in lower Manhattan about Slavery not being taught as part of NYC history.

Just a side note. NY plantation life was very different from plantation life in the south and faded fast. NY has a short growing season for crops and the sun is not hot enough for as long a period of time to for crops to be a huge source of income. Many slaves were used in building trades, blacksmithing, wagon repair etc. Most iust working in their Slave holders businesses in some capacity, some more skilled than others. Most of the old Stone work when you come out of the Brooklyn Bridge Station # 4,5,and 6 train lines, and the oldest court buildings were built by slaves. After slavery these workers were replaced by low wage European builders, with many different skill levels as well.

Every group of people contributed and built this city.
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