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Old 02-24-2013, 10:56 AM
 
7,296 posts, read 11,811,742 times
Reputation: 3266

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Quote:
Originally Posted by wawaweewa View Post
Please stop calling it IT consulting. It's nothing more than IT subcontracting.

People make mistakes and react in the wrong ways all of the time. So what. What the PM should have done was pulled the employee to the side and told him how important this was and that it's the norm. That he understands that this sucks but sometimes you have to do it. Empathizing with people goes a long way. Managing is all about people skills.

Instead what I suspect is that the new employee was more pissed that this was sprung on him at the last second. I'm sure the PM could've told him 4-5 hours in advance and let it sink in. Work is just as much psychological as it is about the projects themselves.

The PM is also probably overworked, underpaid, and over-stressed. Throw in the personal problems that older people have (marriage, kids, etc.) and you get blow-ups.
IT consulting is what it's been called since the days of Unisys and Andersen Consulting. There is no way to manage around the job requirements. Consultants know they can be called to do OT anytime. Either they put up with it or they stay out. People who don't like routine OT don't work in big law or big 4 accounting, so why work in IT consulting? There are other fields out their that offer more balance.
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Old 02-24-2013, 11:03 AM
 
3,327 posts, read 4,337,972 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Forest_Hills_Daddy View Post
IT consulting is what it's been called since the days of Unisys and Andersen Consulting. There is no way to manage around the job requirements. Consultants know they can be called to do OT anytime. Either they put up with it or they stay out. People who don't like routine OT don't work in big law or big 4 accounting, so why work in IT consulting? There are other fields out their that offer more balance.
First off, comparing Big Law to IT subcontracting is an insult to even Big Law paralegals and secretaries.
Comparing it to the major accounting firms is nonsensical as well in this case.

If you can't see why then I can't help you.

I agree that OT is necessary at times but what I also believe is that there is more to the story here.
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Old 02-24-2013, 05:18 PM
 
7,296 posts, read 11,811,742 times
Reputation: 3266
/\/\

Why is it an insult? Corporate law and accounting jobs are often project based, as is IT consulting. If you can't see why then you don't know IT consulting. All require working OT to finish project milestones (or the project gets held up, understand?). All require employees to work extra hours at short notice. Do not trivialize the discussion. Only a dumb person would sign up for a project and complain later about having to work extra to finish it.

As I've posted repeatedly - people who don't like routine OT should stay away from jobs that have these tight deadlines. There are OTHER jobs out there that don't require routine OT. Unless you disagree with that.
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Old 02-24-2013, 08:52 PM
 
Location: Manhattan
2,498 posts, read 3,753,189 times
Reputation: 1608
Some people LIVE TO WORK others WORK TO LIVE, you decide how you will be carry yourself and deal with it.
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Old 02-24-2013, 09:41 PM
 
3,327 posts, read 4,337,972 times
Reputation: 2892
Quote:
Originally Posted by Forest_Hills_Daddy View Post
/\/\

Why is it an insult? Corporate law and accounting jobs are often project based, as is IT consulting. If you can't see why then you don't know IT consulting. All require working OT to finish project milestones (or the project gets held up, understand?). All require employees to work extra hours at short notice. Do not trivialize the discussion. Only a dumb person would sign up for a project and complain later about having to work extra to finish it.

As I've posted repeatedly - people who don't like routine OT should stay away from jobs that have these tight deadlines. There are OTHER jobs out there that don't require routine OT. Unless you disagree with that.
Big Law paralegals and secretaries who work late enjoy perks that IT drones can only dream of. We're not even mentioning Big Law associates and on up.

You have to put things into some perspective. Something tells me that this IT shop doesn't provide dinner on the house and car service home. lol Let alone EOY bonuses. Big Law paralegal and secretaries probably make 3 months of this guy's wages solely with their bonus.



Accounting ( more so taxation and audit) at the Big 4 is such a cyclical business that it's not even worth lumping in with IT work. For 3-4 months they bust their ass but for the other 8, they're coasting. Most Friday's are optional during the Summer/ Fall months.
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Old 02-24-2013, 10:27 PM
 
Location: Long Island, NY
60 posts, read 188,492 times
Reputation: 87
Quote:
Originally Posted by brianNYC92 View Post
Something happened in the office today and I just want to share.

I work in a technology consulting firm, we have clients all over the city working different hours. One of our client had an issue and needed a technician to stay after hour to resolve an issue, so the project manager assigned the ticket to the new kid. The new kid got the assignment, walked over to the project manager and told him that he could not do it because "It's over my hours!". At first the manager thought he was kidding, but the kid added, "You're asking me to work overtime and I don't want to." Needless to say, the project manager blew up. I am wondering what will happen next.

What do you guys think?

(When a tech is hired, he/she is required to read & sign an employee's handbook. It states that overtime may be required from time to time based on client's needs.)
Fire him. He signed the work agreement. The overtime was not excessive. There was no family emergency. Fire him.
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Old 02-24-2013, 11:46 PM
 
3,244 posts, read 5,221,091 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brianNYC92 View Post
in the office today ... needed a technician to stay after hour ... The new kid ... (said) "You're asking me to work overtime and I don't want to."
How many hours?
Quote:
Originally Posted by brianNYC92 View Post
When a tech is hired, he/she is required to read & sign an employee's handbook. It states that overtime may be required from time to time based on client's needs.
Wouldn't this have been fully discussed during the application & interview process?
Quote:
Originally Posted by wawaweewa View Post
what I suspect is that ... this was sprung on him at the last second. I'm sure the PM could've told him 4-5 hours in advance
The OP posted at 3:44 P.M., doesn't indicate that the conversation occurred moments earlier. If normal office hours end at 5 P.M., the newbie probably had at least two hours notice, if not more. How could the PM predict that a problem would pop up?

Last edited by bigjake54; 02-24-2013 at 11:56 PM..
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Old 02-26-2013, 02:49 PM
 
1,314 posts, read 3,430,848 times
Reputation: 619
We have a few people like that where I work at here in az when 2am hits they want you to cash them out so they can leave and let the bar back do all there work
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Old 02-26-2013, 02:54 PM
 
Location: Mt. Vernon, NY
157 posts, read 346,076 times
Reputation: 177
I've worked in the media field and now in the tech field. Both of which have required extensive overtime hours on my part with no additional compensation. I can ***** and moan all I want, but if I want to keep my job I better suck it up and do what's asked of me. Oh, I should add I'm pretty young myself. I'd tell the kid he better get with it or he'll be losing his job. I don't know that I'd fire him right away, people can change and perhaps he will summon some internal drive. If not, can him!
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Old 02-26-2013, 03:16 PM
 
1,319 posts, read 4,236,541 times
Reputation: 822
Lot of hilarity on this thread. Especially people who have no idea commenting how it should be or is in the industry, Technology in general and consulting area specifically we work in.

In tech, its a general given that we work as needed OT, 24/7, and it is just how it is. We trade our 'free time' and give flexibility to work as needed to support the business. Business whether it's working as tech support, working to deliver project on time for a client, developing software for a beta launch, fixing production issues, etc.

Especially in consulting sector of Tech world. Projects have deadlines, and almost always money tied to it. If the kid signed up to be a consultant, he should know I say get rid of the kid unless there was very unusual context we don't know about. Like he had a very important reason why or was already working very hard and he had it because say Project Manager was incompetent and screwed up the delivery. Hence team needed to pitch in and over work to get it re-done

In return, we in tech sector typically get paid pretty well and often times we're given lot of flexibility ourselves... Plus finding a good developer, consultant for services, etc. are hard to do and companies are in battle to find these people.


Anyway...sense of bs entitlement on many new kids nowdays really gets on my nerves. It makes it hard to find and hire the right people. The allure of good pay in tech has so many people who want to make the money but don't have the brains or ethics for it...

Note: I work as Software Development Project Manager and worked in software development company as well as in consulting for Finance sector.
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